Standard Markdown is now CommonMark

by anonfunction • 12 years ago

48 36 12 years ago

Is there anywhere to file a pull request for the commonmark.org website? The "Discuss" button still links to talk.standardmarkdown.com.

sehr• 12 years ago

That's still the main discussion area for this project

sejje2• 12 years ago

Atwood said he'd shut it down (point 3, near the end):

http://blog.codinghorror.com/standard-markdown-is-now-common...

dmishe2• 12 years ago

"naming things and cache invalidation"

nvk3• 12 years ago

Needs either "Markdown" in it or go away with something completely different. This is confusing and the worst of the name choices.

Edit: Suggestion: BetterGruber

sejje2• 12 years ago

They were denied (by Gruber) the choice to use anything with "Markdown" in the title.

EDIT: source: http://blog.codinghorror.com/standard-markdown-is-now-common...

nvk3• 12 years ago

Fuck Gruber they should go with something totally different and Markdown will be forgotten. Win.

kevinqi• 12 years ago

Are they no longer able to have "markdown" in the name? The name isn't rubygems-bad, but it's not exactly intuitive.

2muchcoffeeman• 12 years ago

The original license says:

Neither the name “Markdown” nor the names of its contributors may be used to endorse or promote products derived from this software without specific prior written permission.

http://daringfireball.net/projects/markdown/license

The name change may have been done as a courtesy rather than for legal reasons, but apparently Gruber doesn't wish to endorse any forks.

There was even a kerfuffle on Twitter.

eslaught2• 12 years ago

This must have been done out of politeness and not out of legal reasons. I don't think Gruber has any legal foothold with respect to the name here.

The license you quote is essentially based on copyright. But copyright deals with creative works, not names; names are the domain of trademark. In the US at least, copyright is automatic; trademarks are not. You must explicitly register trademarks in order to have any legal enforcement power over a name.

Has Gruber registered for trademark in the US? I kind of doubt it.

I am not a lawyer, but this smells like something he just wrote in the contract because he could, not because it actually can be enforced as such.

(Note: This is separate from the discussion of whether it was polite for them to use the name Markdown. I generally agree that it is more polite for this project to distance themselves from the original markdown given that Gruber doesn't want to work with them.)

bla2• 12 years ago

I kind of hope that Mark Pilgrim (of diveintomark.com fame of days past) now complains that this dilutes his brand.

x0x02• 12 years ago

wonder what new tantrum from gruber brought this on

maxerickson2• 12 years ago

An addendum to this post:

http://blog.codinghorror.com/standard-markdown-is-now-common...

Edit: after a long and thoughtful email from John Gruber – which is greatly appreciated – he indicated that no form of the word "Markdown" is acceptable to him in this case. We are now using the name CommonMark.

It doesn't sound sarcastic to me.

x0x02• 12 years ago

how was I being sarcastic? Gruber could have skipped the butthurt party by replying to an email sent by the standard markdown team, instead of ignoring them for weeks. He refused communications, reading them to read tea leaves and guess what he might want. Like I said, tantrum. It's behavior expected from a child.

ChristianBundy• 12 years ago

Intellectual property strikes again.

lazyloop• 12 years ago

There seems to be a lot of hostility from both sides now.

"Are the Yankees the best team in baseball? We used to think so."

ejr2• 12 years ago

I understand that hackers tend to be irascible often, especially online, but parting shots like these are in very poor form. Consideration and goodwill tend be diminished when you can't be graceful no matter what the other party said. Especially considering that other party was originally the impetus for this in the first place.

awesomerobot• 12 years ago

You also have to consider the other party was subtweeting all day and calling people dicknoses.

codinghorror3• 12 years ago

This is in reference to Twitter comments from 2 years ago jokingly suggesting that based on the chilly reception from Gruber to any kind of reduction in ambiguity in Markdown's so-called spec... the name "YankeesSuck" could be used instead.

walterbell• 12 years ago

Was CommonMarkup considered?

ejr2• 12 years ago

This comment should be higher. CommonMarkup gets rid of the naming hiccup by having no direct ties to the original spec except syntax, which is arguably a dialect anyway. Atwood gets to have One Syntax to Rule Them All - I sincerely doubt Atwood wanted Yet Another Markdown as he said - and the community benefits from having the syntax ambiguity resolved by comprehensive reform.

gojomo2• 12 years ago

'Markright' (adopting another direction other than 'up' or 'down) or 'Markwrite' (implying natural-language composition) would have been other interesting choices. Or even 'Markround' (completed/balanced like a circle).

Each is closer in spirit to the original – a "mark-up" with a different spin for ease or correctness – and close enough in sound/rhythm for drop-in replacement use. And, each is still different enough to avoid any unearned implication of official Gruber-ness.

kristopher2• 12 years ago

I think that it would be appropriate to simply forget the "Mark" parlance and Gruber all together.

Everyone understands there is a Markdown ecosystem, but quite frankly this is the start of something new.

End-users also need an easy to follow name and site to learn the syntax.

I like the names SmartText or SimpleFormat or even perhaps CommonMarkup.

codinghorror3• 12 years ago

It isn't something new, it is a strongly specified, highly compatible implementation of Markdown. As seen in "common" use on large websites. And any implementation that passes the current spec tests can also brand itself with CommonMark or "Markdown compatible".

kristopher2• 12 years ago

Mr. Atwood, you may be too kind. I see this as a chance to bring Markdown to a larger audience by not only standardizing it, but also renaming it as well.

In this endeavor it would appear that you are giving too much credit to Gruber. It is unfortunate that he was not one to be more gracious in the matter.

gojomo2• 12 years ago

How about Bharkdown, where ARK = "Apple Rumor King"?

(cf: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Inc._litigation#Libel_di...)

Shad0w59• 12 years ago

I find this whole saga hilarious.

Standard Markdown is now CommonMark

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