Ask HN: Do they want a web app, but don't know it?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8260469

by halfcat • 12 years ago

3 7 12 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

Being the outsourced IT guy (server/network infrastructure), I got an email today of this form from a customer:

"The ____ department will be using an Excel spreadsheet to track ____ through the ____ process."

To me this says build a web app. I have played with Django and other Python web frameworks but never made anything significant.

1. How realistic is it to commit to doing something like this with little experience?

2. If it's not realistic, what should I do now to be prepared for this in the future?

3. How do I approach this when, in their mind, they have already decided on Excel as their solution?

I work with many small business customers and feel like I am missing many golden opportunities to build cool things to help them that would also be valuable to others. But I'm not sure how to make the jump. Any advice?

ZenoArrow• 12 years ago

What needs to be tracked? Is there specific functionality you want to add to the tracker? If you're concerned about fragmentation with the spreadsheet approach, is this something you can solve with an existing product (SharePoint, Google Docs, etc...)?

The best solution is often the one that gets the job done with a minimum of fuss.

BWStearns• 12 years ago

In addition to what ZenoArrow said about the fuss/job-done ratio, think about the ability of the next guy to extend this and the security implications. It seems like it's a large(ish) organization. Will they always have a guy who can modify a Django app? Is this on an internal network or is it going to be web-facing? If it's web facing can you be sure that you have taken reasonable measures to protect it (and not have a refund demanded or worse)?

Just some thoughts.

sjs382• 12 years ago

If Excel is the tool they know, don't force them into a tool that they don't know unless it does the job SIGNIFICANTLY better AND adds a lot of value.

You'd be amazed what people (even some non-technical) can do with Excel, pivot tables, etc—don't limit them by pushing them into a solution that they're less comfortable with.

iurisilvio• 12 years ago

Excel is one of the most difficult software to replace in a corporation. It just get the work done, without any third party to block the process. Excel is a safe route, they know how it works and they can even make some brogramming with these sheets.

Ok, you can do it in a better way (faster, online, distributed, ...), but it creates a lot of costs too. In a large corporation, it is not just about the money, they'll waste a lot of time just to define what they want and who they want to make it happen.

dragonwriter• 12 years ago

Excel is one of the most difficult software to replace in a corporation. It just get the work done, without any third party to block the process.

I think this is a common impression which is both a result of poor corporate IT governance/process (and, largely, the fact that "IT" is usually a giant silo that is separated from the business as if it were an outside firm, with rules that only those in that silo can touch anything that might be used to create functionality -- except Excel) and, even so, largely illusory. (There's no less need for systematic testing with Excel, but the people using it often don't understand that, and build complex, poorly-tested, bug-ridden systems that look authoritative.)

Ok, you can do it in a better way (faster, online, distributed, ...), but it creates a lot of costs too.

More important, it creates costs that are part of the business units expenses, but where the work (and headcount) is elsewhere, meaning that the costs of Excel -- even if they are equal costs -- are often desirable. While managers usually have incentives to cut costs, empire-builders were prefer that, if there are costs that are unavoidable, the associated staff are theirs, not someone else's.

In a large corporation, it is not just about the money, they'll waste a lot of time just to define what they want and who they want to make it happen.

Yes, Excel is often a loophole in horribly broken enterprise IT practices that function more to create bureaucratic overhead and prevent IT work from getting done than to serve the needs of the organization, and rapidly accumulating technical debt by having business staff build complex tools in Excel without consideration of whether its an appropriate tool for the business need outside of the role of Excel as an organizational IT policy hack, without structured testing, etc.

OTOH, fixing the broken practices is a better solution.

saluki• 12 years ago

1. The best way to learn something is to jump in . . . but developing a web application can take quite a bit of time . . . meeting your clients needs with one can take even more time.

2. I would start by developing a small app for your self, or a very small/well defined app for a client first. I would use Rails or Laravel (Laracasts.com). You'll want to go through building a login system, login, logout, dashboard page for the app, CRUD, that will get your feet wet. I would use bootstrap for the design or something off wrapbootstrap.

3. Think about what they are wanting to do. Would it be better to be able to log in from anywhere to add/view/edit info rather than sharing a spreadsheet? Basically is there value in setting up a web app. Are they ok with paying for monthly hosting, backups? And paying you for updates/maintenance. Plus the initial cost of your time to develop it.

Keep security in mind . . . using Rails or Laravel and following best practices is a good start but just getting started with web apps I wouldn't take on anything too sensitive.

I would recommend hosting with digital ocean, If you do use Laravel they have a nice tool called Forge to setup/deploy your app.

Good luck.

eddyparkinson• 12 years ago

Excel means you don't need to explain things to a programmer and you can change your mind as things evolve.

One problem is, no user interface. I am working on a way to add a user interface to a spreadsheet. A few early adopters are using it, see www.cellmaster.com.au

Ask HN: Do they want a web app, but don't know it?

Related Stories