Dune Genesis (1980)

http://moodleshare.org/mod/page/view.php?id=2453

by walterbell • 12 years ago

111 72 12 years ago

__david__• 12 years ago

That was phenomenal. I've always loved Dune and it's complicated, detailed storyline. Herbert's comparison to a fugue is incredibly apt.

JonnieCache• 12 years ago

It probably doesn't need to be said here, but if you haven't read Dune, stop what you're doing and read Dune. If like me you enjoyed the idea of LoTR but found the writing irritating, you're going to bloody love Dune.

Don't worry too much about the many sequels, they can get a bit too weird. The first book stands alone just fine.

tspiteri• 12 years ago

Don't worry too much about the many sequels, they can get a bit too weird. The first book stands alone just fine.

True, but if you decide to read the sequels, only read the Frank Herbert sequels. The Brian Herbert/Kevin J. Anderson novels are more like poor fanfiction than sequels.

ekianjo• 12 years ago

Even the Herbert sequels are not really that good. I'd recommend new readers to stop at Dune to avoid destroying their image of the Universe.

shabda3• 12 years ago

The Brian Herbert/Kevin J. Anderson novels are more like poor fanfiction than sequels.

Thank you. I read one book by Brian H. and every chapter filled me with rage, for destroying the magic of one of my most loved books.

One of the most enjoyable things about Dune is that all factions/entities have shades of grey and plans within their plan. The way Brian H. books change them to a linear story and put entities in a black/white divide is infuriating.

n0body2• 12 years ago

the legends of dune trilogy were the only good dune books. the reset were drivel in my opinion. that said, i did read them all, so they can't have been that bad, but i did spend most of the time waiting for the robots to come back. which they don't do :(

Shivetya• 12 years ago

I do not mind their books too much, the stories were interesting and some of the explanation given for various technologies was fine.

The Tleilaxu background was good, however the fault I give the son's work is far too often he would try to out do dad, as in one up the ability of the foes faced. Still I liked the Titans and found the idea of how Mentats originated was valid; whom else but a computer could train them?

alphabetam• 12 years ago

I haven't read their _sequels_, but I have read their _prequels_ before reading the original dune and I found them decent. Not exceptional, but not bad at all. Slightly different from the original, though, which might be why they are off-putting to many people who have read Dune first.

(I am reading them in the order suggested here: http://www.amazon.com/Dune-Saga-Chronological-Order/lm/1COAD...)

dccoolgai• 12 years ago

I just got around to it a couple months ago after 15 years of meaning to read it. It is still an awesome book. Like Game of Thrones in space with a little bit less incest.

Tloewald2• 12 years ago

More psychic fetuses though.

Tloewald2• 12 years ago

It's been a long time since I read the initial trilogy, and i agree the sequels (including Messiah and Children) were not really worth reading (not so much for weirdness as just not being interesting). It seems, however, that the themes Herbert claims drove the book really only come into play in the sequels. The first book is a standard story of revenge and a good, handsome, plucky underdog overcoming the fat, deformed, seethingly evil bad guy against all odds. Where's the heroes are fallible stuff? In the far less compelling sequels.

trevelyan• 12 years ago

Herbert wrote the first book as multiple novellas, serialized for publication by Analog. His later novels are much looser, and clearly didn't benefit from the attention he put into making sure the originals would be accepted by the leading science fiction publisher of the time.

bane2• 12 years ago

The best part about Dune is that it's really one of those books that reveals different things every time you read it. It should be part of every serious literature course.

nbush• 12 years ago

I'm sorry, but I have to challenge such a broad statement. The classification of literature is an awful game but Dune is hardly a default candidate for serious study, and I feel a view of literature with it near the top is unfortunately stunted. Just speaking as someone who has taken many of the courses you mention, although not an expert.

awjr• 12 years ago

Have to agree, Dune is an amazing book and stands well on it's own. One of my favourite ever. Even the film/TV interpretations are pretty good :)

lhl• 12 years ago

The original is an absolute classic, but the first sequel, Dune Messiah is probably also worth reading - without it, you don't really get a good picture of what Herbert has to say about the hero's journey.

Nursie2• 12 years ago

Noooo!

Messiah and children are amazing, and the rest are weird but great (and 5000 years distinct in time).

It's well worth reading all 6.

And yes, that's all 6. There never were any more than 6.

chernevik• 12 years ago

This dialogue with my son made me proud of my parenting:

Me: "Godfather I?" He: "One of the greatest movies of all time." Me: "Godfather II?" He: "Transcendental. The rare sequel better than the original." Me: "Godfather III?" He: "Never happened. An elaborate hoax."

peter3032• 12 years ago

The 5th & 6th make a nice read. They move to new topics such the varieties of biological immortality. Franks long time wife had died and I think he was feeling his end too.

DanTheManPR2• 12 years ago

When I first read the Dune series in High School, Messiah seemed dreadfully boring - almost enough to quit reading it. After re-reading the series about 15 years later, I was very surprised by how much my opinion of Messiah improved - to the point that it's almost my favorite of the series. It really provides a stark (but satisfying) 3rd act and ending to Paul's story. I almost feel like it's Dune Part 2, rather than a separate novel.

hackcasual• 12 years ago

My advice to people on the sequels is to keep going until they don't like them anymore. They definitely don't get better.

IgorPartola2• 12 years ago

So I finished reading Dune recently. I did not enjoy it as much as I thought I would. My main problem with it was how predictable it was: gifted kid succeeds in everything he does. A question I have is whether I should read the two immediate sequels. Do they actually explore the whole "superheroes are bad" theme more? Would I get a better sense of the context for what Dune really was about?

My first exposure to the Dune universe was actually the DOS game Dune II, which is funny since it had nothing to do with the storyline. Honestly, I found the game more enjoyable than the book.

S4M• 12 years ago

OT, but what do you find irritating in LOTR's writing? too many descriptions? Personally I appreciate Tolkien's style of writing (I read LOTR several times in English which is not my mother tongue).

walterbell2• 12 years ago

There's a good documentary about the Dune movie that was never made, http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/jodorowskys-dune-2014 & http://jodorowskysdune.com/trailer.html

jameskilton• 12 years ago

Fantastic documentary, but to be fair, Jodorowsky never actually read Dune. The story and message were completely different from Dune the book.

mwerd• 12 years ago

Jodorowsky did read Dune according to the documentarian:

"The truth is that he had not read it when he had the idea to make the film. At that point, someone had told him it was good. Hilarious. But once he embarked on his mission, he of course read it as he did the screenplay adaptation before anything. His film would have been remarkably loyal to the novel, of course with some of his own genius in the mix."

http://www.reddit.com/r/movies/comments/2csd3c/frank_pavich_...

paulbjensen• 12 years ago

I grew up reading Dune, and then reread it when I was in University. Thanks for sharing this, especially liked how he likened the themes in the book to existing problems of that time.

whoisthemachine• 12 years ago

His writing is always of the highest quality.

alexfisher• 12 years ago

Read all the Dune books through Mentats of Dune by Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson. Loved them all! Favorite series ever-- love, politics, philosophy, technology, fantasy. Brilliant.

hownottowrite• 12 years ago

Not one mention of The Seven Pillars of Wisdom by TE Lawrence? I'm actually reading that book right now; so many parallels. It's a shame Herbert didn't mention Lawrence in this essay.

walterbell2• 12 years ago

a.k.a. Lawrence of Arabia, https://archive.org/details/SevenPillarsOfWisdomByT.e.Lawren...

andyjohnson0• 12 years ago

The July 1980 edition of Omni, in which the Herbert's article appeared, is available on archive.org in various formats [1]. The full collection is at [2] and was discussed a few years ago on HN [3].

[1] https://archive.org/details/omni-magazine-1980-07

[2] https://archive.org/details/omni-magazine

[3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4741619

consultutah3• 12 years ago

I just finished re-reading the series last week, including the last 2 books by his son. Those last 2 weren't completely awful, but they certainly didn't live up to the standards set by the original author. The only point that I was truly disappointed with the writing was when I read the following words: "male bene gesserit".

There were plenty of other inconsistencies as well, but as when watching any good movie, you need to suspend reality (in this case Frank Herbert's reality) and allow the story to play out.

I don't think I have the stomach to read the prequels, but I'm sure I'll come back and re-read the series again and again. Very few authors take the time to create such immersive universes.

syntern• 12 years ago

You'll find this a fascinating read: http://www.oreilly.com/tim/herbert/

Tim O'Reilly made an interview with Frank Herbert on how he created his universe, and describes the huge effort that went into it. Worth to read. Unfortunately they don't print it anymore, but hey, at least it is available online.

consultutah3• 12 years ago

Thank you!

rsync• 12 years ago

I have read the entire original series 3-4 times.

I was also greatly disappointed by the sequels/prequels not written by Frank Herbert.

BUT ... the biography "Dreamer of Dune" is well worth reading - very interesting and revealing.

ilamont• 12 years ago

Reading Herbert's thoughts on Dune and the all-too-human nature of superheroes reminded me of "The Bureau of Sabotage" (1) from two of his other books, The Dosadi Experiment and Whipping Star:

In Herbert's fiction, sometime in the far future, government becomes terrifyingly efficient. Red tape no longer exists: laws are conceived of, passed, funded, and executed within hours, rather than months. The bureaucratic machinery becomes a juggernaut, rolling over human concerns and welfare with terrible speed, jerking the universe of sentients one way, then another, threatening to destroy everything in a fit of spastic reactions. In short, the speed of government goes beyond sentient control ... Founded by the mysterious "Five Ears" of unknown species, BuSab began as a terrorist organization whose sole purpose was to frustrate the workings of government in order to give sentients a chance to reflect upon changes and deal with them. Having saved sentiency from its government, BuSab was officially recognized as a necessary check on the power of government. It provides a natural (and lucrative) outlet for society's regular crop of troublemakers, who must be countered by society's regular crop of "do-gooders".

FWIW, I find Dune and many other classics of sci-fi (extended to film, TV and videogames) so compelling because it's a solid story built on the foundation of a carefully imagined and visualized universe ... down to the political power structure. There are a few other universes worlds that also hold up, despite some poor sequels and side projects ... Urth, LOTR, Star Wars, Half-life, etc.

1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bureau_of_Sabotage

peter3032• 12 years ago

I re-read Frank's Dune books every decade and they still speak across a half century of time. In the 1960s pollution and over population were the environmental issues. But now others like global warming predominate. Plus there is a lot of Arabism in Dune and mid-East wars have been growing in the past 20 years.

babuskov2• 12 years ago

Wow. I remember the first time I read it, I made a list of Herbert's gems from Dune books:

http://abrick.sourceforge.net/dune.points.html

Warning, ugly 1999's HTML and design :)

It's amazing that this page is now in top-10 when you search for "Dune Quotes" on Google.

Hasu• 12 years ago

I have never understood why Frank Herbert isn't enshrined as the 20th century's best science fiction author, since that's exactly what he was.

He always gets overshadowed by Asimov, Heinlein, and Clarke, who are undoubtedly all very good. But Herbert's works have depth and timelessness that few other writers in any genre can match. The Dune series is genius, the ConSentiency series(only two novels and a short story or two, sadly) nearly reaches Dune's level, and there are portions of The Dosadi Experiment that exceed anything in Dune.

AceJohnny2• 12 years ago

He didn't write as much?

Dune Genesis (1980)

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