Ask HN: Customers say “great idea and product” but they don't download

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8197974

by buyfromfarm • 12 years ago

7 23 12 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

Hi, I am the founder of Buy From Farm (http://buyfrom.farm) - let people sell/buy produce from/to their neighbors. I believe vendors at farmers' markets would be my potential customers so I visited local farmers' markets at Austin, Texas. I talked about what our app can do, demoed the push notification features to show a vendor can reach people at farmer's markets in a real-time. I also noticed all of them are using smart phones, majority of them are android's. They understand what's push notification. They understood our app is free to download. I also talked to them when they were free, no customer there. I ended our conversion as quickly as I could while someone stopped by at their stands. I received very positive feedback. 19 of 20 I have talked likes the idea very much. The only one thought I was selling cell phones since we didn't really have conversion and they turned me down. I collected their business cards, also left a flyer with download instruction to each one I talked. And I sent followup emails to them next Monday.

But it turned out no single downloaded happened from this visit. 0 of 19 doesn't sound right.

What did I do wrong? Or there is something I missed.

Happy2Help• 12 years ago

This might be useful for you. The founder talks about the exact same problem - prospects say they like the idea but no conversions.

https://medium.com/@michalbohanes/seven-lessons-i-learned-fr...

buyfromfarm7• 12 years ago

Thank you for sharing this. Even though my mind is telling me that my case is way different. I read through and will think hard. A followup question: what should I do? I am not gonna close my door without trying harder.

27182818284• 12 years ago

I visit the farmer's markets here (not Austin) maybe once or twice a week and I'm not sure why I would want to use this app.

I'd recommend a lot more customer feedback development/interviews (to use the Steve Blank term) For example, It should be more like 5 to 10 people per day rather than 20 people in total. Farmers and people that visit farmer's markets, are generally polite. They're going to say yes to you and then just not download it, rather than say, "I hate this." You'll will have to dig deep, but politely dig, and do a lot more interviews.

For me personally, I just don't understand what value this gives me or what hair-on-fire problem I need this to solve. (I've also thought about building an app for the farmer's market too, but with a very different approach/business model focused on questions and Community Supported Agriculture (CSA) problems I've encountered.)

buyfromfarm7• 12 years ago

Ok. Can I interview you first? Why wont you use it? Assume you are a user. Do you know what can you buy when you visit a farmer's market? I know you can check the website of a farmers market. But most of them don't have vendor product info. Let's see you know Barton creek FM so well you know each stand. How about at Muller? Will you just go there to try you luck. You can also argue most of vendors have their own websites. But really? A small business like them to build and maintain a website? I saw most of websites are old and lack of update for Barton's. A followup question: use this app, you see your neighbor is putting up some small trees for sale, like craigslist, will you buy from your neighbor. Like my mentor, a golf legend, plants 50+ trees at his backyard, he wants to sell some of them, at his 70's, how could he do that? In the end, and also how I pitched, most of grocery shopping happens at formal and informal farmers market in developing counties such as in China and India. So I also think there is a huge opportunity there.

palidanx2• 12 years ago

As a person who visits tons of farmer's markets (some food vendors are my clients across the nation), I'm not exactly sure if vendors at farmer's markets who sell produce would specifically be your niche.

Generally speaking a farmer hits X # of markets per week to sell their produce. Selling small scale to individual consumers wouldn't work well for their time.

However I have heard of some restaurants in LA where they accept extra produce from neighborhoods for their restaurant (not sure if they buy it necessarily).

sharemywin• 12 years ago

follow up. find out why it wasn't worth their time. why not have them download it right then and there.

MalcolmDiggs• 12 years ago

On my sites, visitor behavior never ceases to amaze me. Before you go re-thinking your business plan I would recommend watching your analytics closely (it looks like you're using GA, which is nice; you might wanna give Heap a try though, it's nice for this kind of use-case).

You wanna narrow down exactly where the problem is. Did people fail to visit the site at all? Did they visit then fail to follow the links to the app store? Did they go to the app store and then fail to download? These are all very different problems. Pay close attention to the browsers/devices people are actually using on your site, and make sure you're testing/emulating those experiences (so you can see what they see). There might be a bug somewhere. Once you rule these kinds of things out, then it might be worth revisiting your strategy/pitch, but I don't think you're quite there yet.

JSeymourATL2• 12 years ago

what should I do? I am not gonna close my door without trying harder.

Repetition is key-- visit these same people again, and again. Get to know them and their business. Question: are the vendors the true decision-makers or just helpers?

Focus on getting just ONE conversion as a pilot project. Hold their hand till it gets traction. All the other vendors will take note if this thing works. Mindset is helpful, this is part of the market discovery process.

buyfromfarm7• 12 years ago

Helpful one. I actually met a CEO of a local wine company. He was excited (at least he asked a lot of questions), pointed me to his VP Marketing. Some are helpers. I will lock one and follow up.

JSeymourATL2• 12 years ago

For what it's worth-- do ping me if you would like to compare notes on strategy/execution, etc...

RogerL• 12 years ago

I don't know if this has anything to do with it, but your site is pretty bad. The text reads like it was written by a non-native speaker. I had to puzzle just to figure out what some sentences were saying. Then the interaction was a bit wonky (sometimes things scroll up down, sometimes left right, sometimes popouts). The images behind the text made it extremely hard to read.

Putting myself in the mind of a vendor, I can't imagine wanting to try to enter anything significant via a phone. You don't seem to have any web presence besides this landing page. Do you have any customers, any traction? I probably already work from sun up to after sun down; do I really want to take extra time for this for completely unproven benefits? How many more people will I reach by just posting on Facebook? Why aren't you linked to Facebook? Do I have to do something on Facebook, then come to your app and do it again? No thanks. What if I get a bad review? Is it there forever? Can I protest it?

If it was already the one and only app for farmer markets, I could see maybe signing up. But putting all that effort and risk into a start up? Nah. What's in it for me vs going to Facebook?

As a customer - what is in it for me? I want to wander around and look, not be checking my phones for updates ('honey now 20% off. Come see our scones'). There is marginal value in discovering farmer's markets, but they are scheduled well in advance; a 10 second google tells me all the farmer's markets in my area. If there is one near me that I am interested in, I'll just 'like' it on Facebook.

Finally, the website confused me. You start by talking to the farmer. Then you seem to be saying consumers can sell their own extra produce. I'm not sure. Can I sell my garden vegetables? And this brings us back around to the poor English.

I'm not saying all those objections are correct, but I think you need pretty good answers to them if you want people to download your app.

buyfromfarm7• 12 years ago

Oh, you talk about the website. You think the website kills users motivation? The thing was that 1) my previous website wasn't like this at all (no venders signed up, I shifted my idea to neighbors who wants to sell produce to neighbors) 2) I just told them how to download the app. Like searching "buy from farm". I personally don't think your comment is trying to answer my questions because it can't be no single download. They already saw how app works.

Mz2• 12 years ago

I am wondering what problem you are trying to solve. I am wondering if you even have a clear problem in mind or if this is a solution in search of a problem.

What is your so-called elevator speech for this product?

As RogerL indicated, the site does need a lot of work. But, I think a deeper problem is that I don't really see a clear business model here. I see something that looks like this type of thinking: "1) make app 2) talk to vendors 3) (something happens here 4) Profit!" and I will suggest that vendors at farmer's markets are not there to try to make you rich. You have got to offer something of value to them.

Best of luck.

buyfromfarm7• 12 years ago

Well. Making me rich as my intention is probably a little bit too much. At least I think I am trying to help them. The idea is from neighbors helping neighbors. I am from China. Nowadays almost 99% grocery shopping is done in farmer's markets in China, India and almost most developing countries. There are countless news about farmers couldn't find buyers. This is the problem I am solving. If you think my solution is bad. There are a few startups I found out, funded, and charged vendors up to $100/month for providing their product info. I understand you are trying to help. But not happy with my intention is challenged.

Mz2• 12 years ago

Okay, so are you actually doing this in China then? Because I am American and I imagine most folks here are answering from an American or European or other more developed country perspective. So if you will clarify where your market is, that might help you get better feedback from the people here.

I am sorry you are offended. I was not challenging your intention. I was telling you what the product looks like to an outsider who has no idea what your intention is. It is your job to make it clear what the intent is by how you frame it. Bill Gates said "Your unhappiest customers are your greatest source of learning" (or something close to that). You have to learn to take constructive feedback for what it is: Useful information. If you get upset with people for trying to give you feedback, it gets less likely you will continue getting it and that is a much, much bigger problem than being told something you aren't happy hearing.

Again: Best of luck.

palidanx2• 12 years ago

There are countless news about farmers couldn't find buyers.

Bigger farmer's tend to work with bigger distributors like Costco or safeway for their product. Smaller farmers go to farmer's markets to sell their goods.

For example, one of my favorite farmers is located in the central valley. They do about 6 markets a week driving to a different city every time.

Basically at least in California and in most of the nation there is some type of farmer's market infrastructure so to speak. This infrastructure makes it easier for the farmer to find buyers by only specifically targeting certain markets/cities.

In terms of farmers finding buyers specifically I don't think there is an existing model of b2c directly (at least yet). The closest thing I can think of is you are kind of similar to a CSA.

Lastly the best thing to do is put yourself in the farmer's shoes and look at it in their perspective. Is there a problem you actually are solving for them?

seekingcharlie2• 12 years ago

I'd have a look at what competitor's are already doing in the space:

https://www.goodeggs.com/

buyfromfarm7• 12 years ago

this is a blank page. nothing is there. tested with chrome and safari.

seekingcharlie2• 12 years ago

Look again, closer.

It's a simple page that asks users to take a core action - choose the market in their area. You can then view all items that you can have ordered to you from farmers/producers.

They have been gaining a lot of traction which is why I told you to look at them.

gesman• 12 years ago

Don't talk to people about your app and downloads and push notifications. They don't understand this language and zoom out while keeping polite conversation with you.

Talk to them in their terms - tell them that you'll help them to sell more and reach more customers. Tell them how much more specifically - even though it's a very rough estimate.

Let them ask "how" and go from there.

seanccox• 12 years ago

I am not a farmer, but I have lived and worked alongside them and I have to ask: What problem are you trying to solve? Is the problem you solved a problem that farmers have?

Personally, I don't think you understand the dynamics of the small farm market, or what the people involved (as growers or buyers) want and need. My two closest friends recently launched their rural Indiana farm, and I've spent time with them on farms in VT over the past several yeas. I've had lots of conversations with farmers about the potential of technologies and apps, and discussed problems they face. In a dozen conversations, no one mentioned problems selling to their neighbors or unloading product at local markets. This is probably because most farmers aren't earning their main income from those sources, and instead they go there to maintain a presence in their communities.

However, all of the farmers I spoke with had difficulties finding steady income selling bulk to restaurants or other large buyers on a regular basis. Go solve that problem, and I'm sure you will get your downloads.

Ask HN: Customers say “great idea and product” but they don't download

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