Silent Circle Launches Global Encrypted Calling Plan

https://blog.silentcircle.com/why-are-we-competing-with-phone-makers-skype-and-telecom-carriers-all-in-the-same-week/

by mike-cardwell • 12 years ago

133 44 12 years ago

blog.silentcircle.com

foobarqux• 12 years ago

Do I need a blackphone for this?

tetrep2• 12 years ago

The lack of any mention of supported platforms and the remarks about selling phones in last paragraph seem to indicate as much.

"We snuck in the back door, by offering the most secure commercial device system on the market. We don’t want to sell 100 million phones, we simply want to own the secure enterprise and prosumer market."

JshWright8• 12 years ago

The client apps are available on both Android and iOS, in their respective app stores.

privong• 12 years ago

No, it appears they have apps for their products:

https://silentcircle.com/#apps

Cyph0n• 12 years ago

I don't get it. If the plan covers domestic and international calls and includes no roaming charges shouldn't they be providing each customer with a SIM? Or is it similar to Skype in that you need an internet connection?

It still looks very interesting either way.

JshWright8• 12 years ago

Yes, it requires a data connection (either baseband or WiFi).

Even still, a prepaid data-only SIM is pretty cheap most places, and you can continue using your number wherever you are.

MichaelGG3• 12 years ago

I love how they talk about how they don't have any infrastructure costs and can outmaneuver "major telecoms" but then gleefully talk about connecting to the PSTN.

I'd also like to have them publish and guarantee exactly what they mean by "encrypted to the PSTN". Are they guaranteeing they have TDM access in every destination, and that their TDM access doesn't get sent out over IP? Or do they really mean the run IPSec to a handful of VoIP carriers and call that the PSTN?

Not to mention, encrypted to the PSTN solves what, exactly? How's it really any different than using my cell phone?

The whole blog post is written in a very odd, feels-like-snake-oil manner. They compare to Skype's plan, but on their homepage, their $12 plan has only 100 minutes. Skype's plan is "unlimited" (subject to fair use). So I'm not sure why they'd bother comparing the two - they don't seem the same?

The zRTP and member-to-member stuff is probably done correctly, but the rest of it feels very hype-like.

tetrep2• 12 years ago

I'd also like to have them publish and guarantee exactly what they mean by "encrypted to the PSTN"

If you look at the infographic from the article you'll see that if it's not end-to-end then it's only to their servers. The crypto will flow from Caller<->Callee or Caller<->Server. I think it's safe to assume that their server then connects to the PSTN, hence "encrypted to the PSTN."

JshWright8• 12 years ago

Precisely. The PSTN leg is routed via iBasis.

http://www.broadwayworld.com/bwwgeeks/article/Silent-Circle-...

Disclaimer that I feel like I repeat too often but is probably still warranted: I am a Silent Circle employee.

cowbell5• 12 years ago

Not to mention, encrypted to the PSTN solves what, exactly?

I presume, if one calls Germany, and the line is encrypted from the handset to Germany, then that person would be out of NSA's reach.

I suspect that would make wiretaps more difficult as well, since police would need to tap who is called, instead of the caller. That's a lot more warrants and they need them in advance of a call... or they need every call recorded from the end points for later search.

dlgeek• 12 years ago

I presume, if one calls Germany, and the line is encrypted from the handset to Germany, then that person would be out of NSA's reach.

I would not make that assumption. While I have no evidence, there are plenty of ways the NSA could collect data along these paths - exploiting bugs in the switches, installing a beam splitter in fiber as it traverses a remote area, etc. etc.

mpyne• 12 years ago

Seems like a bad assumption to make.

When Germany caught the U.S. spy recently, it was based on that German worker using a personal GMail account to email the Russian consulate.

That email was magically intercepted by Germany's BND somehow, in what I'm sure has nothing at all to do with any sort of network surveillance measures in Germany targeting foreign intelligence.

But just to be safe we should probably assume that BND is actually listening within Germany, just like the U.S. spy should have assumed BND could read his email.

xorcist5• 12 years ago

But the PSTN is the easy part to wiretap. Especially the TDM part of it. Data is nicely partitioned in channels and there is only one single metadata format to worry about.

And you can not compare the NSA with the police. The latter needs a warrant (sort of, depending on locale) but the former doesn't.

higherpurpose• 12 years ago

100 minutes for VOIP calling, not regular data calling. Last I checked Skype charged for those, too.

dublinben2• 12 years ago

That's still outrageously overpriced, like everything else they sell. VOIP calls are pennies per minute with every other VOIP provider.

JshWright8• 12 years ago

100 minutes of outbound. Inbound is free.

MichaelGG3• 12 years ago

I read it as 100 minutes to the PSTN - VoIP to normal phones. Skype has "unlimited" for $13 to several countries. That's because for the US, the average price is well under a penny, and for Canada it's a few tenths of a penny/minute. Many other countries also have fairly cheap rates.

So I'm confused as to why he'd compare a $12 100 minute plan to a $13 "unlimited" plan.

madaxe_again• 12 years ago

They're probably funded through the black budget, so can play the field.

I for one have zero confidence that this isn't an elaborate honeypot, as anyone interested in privacy is a target, and this would seem an excellent way of gathering more innocent people to target with surveillance.

makomk• 12 years ago

It's ridiculously slimy. For the countries I've looked at, their 100 minute a month plan works out to be more than five times as expensive per minute as Skype's pay-as-you-go call prices where you just pay for what you use with no monthly charge.

quinndupont• 12 years ago

Really wish they offered pay-as-you-go plans... I have no need to a $10/month extra expense, but I would love to occasionally use this service if it was based on usage (although there is surely some expense for Silent Circle here).

dublinben2• 12 years ago

You can make encrypted calls for free using an application like CSipSimple and ZRTP. Calls to another SIP user are completely free. Calls to a landline are $0.01 with many VOIP providers.

dboy1612• 12 years ago

Huh, it's an interesting service that's for sure, I'm just more lost about some of it's subject.

Call me stupid, but "no roaming charges" are available for any type of "VOIP" service, not specifically to them. If I live in the US and travel to Europe, and want to make a call with what I'm guessing is going to be a US Data Only Sim on a standard Android phone, I'm going to be charged extra, right?

And if using their Blackphone, would it remove the need for US Data Sim? Just lost, the blog post didn't get too specific in those details. Can't beat all these telecom competitors listed if you're dependant on them in some way for your apps on native phones.

beedogs• 12 years ago

Better get the lawyers ready for the inevitable "national security" letters.

bites• 12 years ago

If call will go to telecommunication network i can guarantee that call can be intercepted. It is like normal call and those can be listened. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_gateway http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawful_interception

carlob• 12 years ago

I really want these guys to succeed, but I have to say the comparison with skype is misleading to say the least:

Skype @ $13.99 gives you unlimited calls to 63 countries for landlines and 8 countries for mobile

Silent Circle @ $12.95 gives you 100 minutes in admittedly many more places.

The crazy thing is that there is absolutely no need for them to market themselves as the cheap option, when they should be focusing more on privacy.

xorcist5• 12 years ago

What is this marketing gibberish and why is Zimmermann (of PGP fame) connected to this?

I first thought that it was cool they released a mass market product that encrypts PSTN communications. This is something that speciality phones do that carry a hefty pricetag and are two generations behind technologically. But on a second reading it says "encrypted TO the PSTN". What does that even mean? You could say that about every GSM phone if you wanted!

Also "secure virtual operator". Are they a virtual operator or not? In which countries? Certainly not the 41 countries listed above, even if that's what they want you to believe.

"No roaming charges". Yeah, that'd be great. But for what and where? No idea.

After making my way though the text I want to dismiss this, but Zimmermann is in. So what's the deal here?

dan_bk• 12 years ago

Real solutions must be entirely de-centralized and open-source. Anything else is bandaid at best.

ZoFreX• 12 years ago

This does sound really cool, and I'm genuinely excited that there is a market for secure communications, but this solution isn't for me. I simply can't trust something in this field that is closed source. For anyone else who feels the same way but likes the sound of this, I'd recommend looking at TextSecure and RedPhone.

Silent Circle Launches Global Encrypted Calling Plan

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