Nitrogen: The bringer of life and death

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/27731291

by Turukawa • 12 years ago

53 16 12 years ago

bbc.co.uk

p1mrx2• 12 years ago

I wonder how feasible it would be to use ammonia as fuel? NH3 is liquid, contains no carbon, and releases N2 and water when burned.

maaarghk• 12 years ago

Perfectly possible, but I think you'd need about twice as much ammonia as diesel for the same output. Don't quote me on that though... not certain!

This article was a great read, btw.

db48x• 12 years ago

Also liquid ammonia is cryogenic. Cars would constantly be venting ammonia gas as it boiled off, assuming you didn't want the tanks to explode.

dredmorbius3• 12 years ago

And is _tremendously_ poisonous. Fuel leaks or even unburned vapors would be hugely problematic.

The other problem is that you need energy to form ammonia in the first place. Turns out you can use chemical bonds for storage in other compounds as well, including simple hydrocarbon chains forming either gases or liquids. Sabatier process and Fischer-Tropsch process will both create fuels (gas and liquid, respectively), given a hydrogen and carbon feedstock, and input energy.

Turns out the ocean contains a great deal of hydrogen (combined with oxygen as water) and carbon (dissolved as carbonate/bicarbonate and as CO2 gas dissolved in water). And the stuff is really safe to handle and we've been burning it for well over a century.

The US Navy has been researching developing this to industrial scales, and it strikes me as among the better bets I've seen for providing a liquid transportation / mobile use fuel we've got: http://redd.it/22k71x

smoyer• 12 years ago

You know of ammonia as a liquid because it's in solution with water. Anhydrous Ammonia is a gas at atmospheric pressure and is extremely dangerous. We had a 400lb bottle of "pure" ammonia connected to a blue-print machine in the '80's and it was the one thing in the plant I was truly afraid of (we also made and "stuffed" circuit boards and there were plenty of dangerous chemicals around).

jlcummings• 12 years ago

Propellants, aka rocket fuel: http://history.nasa.gov/conghand/propelnt.htm

rmason• 12 years ago

That is not a very good idea. First you would need a pressurized tank. Next every time you fueled up you'd have to don protective gear, goggles for your eyes and heavy rubber gloves.

Anhydrous is without water and seeks it. I worked in the fertilizer business for twenty years. I've seen farmers lose their eyesight from a burst hose and observed some pretty severe burns from it.

It does do a pretty nice job of shrinking a dollar bill by drawing all the moisture out of it. While it definitely is illegal to modify/deface currency this way it's something guys who pumped ammonia did to amuse themselves ;<).

Klapaucius• 12 years ago

There are already people organized to promote this very idea. Google "ammonia economy" or check out: http://nh3fuelassociation.org/2013/07/02/implementing-an-amm...

Also: https://www.asme.org/engineering-topics/articles/sustainabil...

I know too little of the subject myself to have a position on it, but it is an intriguing idea.

jloughry• 12 years ago

Ammonia was the working fluid in household refrigerators throughout the early 20th century, where it killed lots of people. Freon was invented as a safe replacement for ammonia, and Thomas Midgely was hailed for saving thousands of lives as a result. Albert Einstein invented a new type of refrigerator that didn't use ammonia after hearing of the death of an entire family caused by the explosion of an ammonia refrigerator.

It's still used in commercial refrigeration plants, as it's highly efficient.

dredmorbius3• 12 years ago

Trivium: ammonia is known as R-1. Refrigerant 1. Freon is generally R-12.

pling• 12 years ago

We used to make nitrogen triiodide at school. It was a prank explosive. Well it was until we destroyed a whole fume cupboard with it. Blew the glass out.

Nitrogen has eternally had my respect after clearing that mess up.

Make your own (insert disclaimer about this being your problem if you blow yourself up): iodine crystals from eBay/amazon + ammonia concentrate from the same. Mix small amount together, leave to crystallise on a coffee filter. Tickle with a feather or add some jam before it is dry to attact flies (it will blow them up when they land on it). It's relatively safe when wet but the moment it's dry its incredibly unstable.

SAI_Peregrinus• 12 years ago

http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/things_i_wont_work_with...

Note the high percentage of that list which consists of compounds with far too many N-N single bonds. Or double bonds, as some of those compounds seem like someone got in a contest to cram the most azide groups into the smallest space.

Nitrogen: The bringer of life and death

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