Jobless IT graduate sues her college

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8180806.stm

by gaius • 17 years ago

12 24 17 years ago

news.bbc.co.uk

TomOfTTB• 17 years ago

Part of me wants to blame the society we're creating with all these bail outs. I want to say we've created a culture where people have gone to the complete opposite of self reliance to the point where they simply can't accept their circumstance in life might be their own fault

But honestly, when I put that logic up to scrutiny I have to think it's an over reaction. When society thinks this woman is justified then we have a problem but right now I think it's an issue of not reading too much into the actions of an idiot. Anyone who is straight out of college in the current economy and thinks they are entitled to a job is just being foolish.

ArturSoler• 17 years ago

If she does not find a job, maybe it's her fault, not the college's.

She was not forced to go to that college, and she should had done some research about the institution before enrolling, if it happens to be so bad as she claims (that should be confirmed looking at other students).

jacquesm4• 17 years ago

So that college forced her to choose this education ?

I'm sure she would have shared her income with them as well if she did find a job, after all they are responsible and should get a cut of the benefits as well as the blame for the risks.

Choosing your education is your own responsibility and if you choose a path for which there are not enough jobs in the area where you graduate you can do a whole bunch of things:

- learn something new

- take a job that may pay less and does not match your education

- move to a place where work is available

If the college can not follow up on its promises made in better times because the economy has tanked in the intermediate period then you have plenty of options, suing them does not seem to be the most productive way of going forward.

It's the one way in which you probably can just about guarantee that any employer that has heard about this is NEVER going to hire you. They'll already know you have a history of frivolously suing parties that you have a relationship with, it would't take a lot of imagination to think that you could be suing your would be employers next.

wglb• 17 years ago

Although with some colleges, the advertisements imply strongly that you will get a job with their degree. Don't know in this particular case.

jacquesm4• 17 years ago

That's true, but caveat emptor still applies. Common sense will tell you that they are not in a position to make such a promise unless they can show you the paperwork on a deal with the name of a third party that is willing to hire you provided you pass their program up front.

Anything less than that and you know for sure that there is no such thing as a guaranteed job, especially not in a marketplace that is as variable as the IT market is.

edw519• 17 years ago

If she's finding someone else to blame before she even gets a job, imagine how quickly she'll find someone else to blame as soon as something goes wrong on the job. Maybe it's just as well. I don't know if I want to work with someone like that.

One way an IT job is like real life is that you need to find a way to solve your problems. Her solution won't work. Not much of a problem solver, huh?

jacquesm4• 17 years ago

It's the entitlement problem. If you don't get what you think you have a right to in life sue someone.

trevelyan• 17 years ago

This could be a legitimate lawsuit. There's not enough information in the article to know what promises the school made to students and if it delivered on them.

jsares• 17 years ago

All schools promise job placement assistance and in general it's very poor. The real issue is they can't put you in a job that doesn't exist.

clistctrl5• 17 years ago

Her lawsuit may not be legitimate, (I have little idea what Monroe college is and who owns it.) but if it is a for-profit college, then I for one enjoy seeing SOMEONE bring some kind of lawsuit upon one of these schools. Their business is unethical, their priority is profit not education. When i was born my father started putting money away in tax-free Mutual Funds. With some help of the 90's boom, I had a nice college fund. My father went to Vietnam instead of college, and my mother... well she's a nice lady. So when i graduated my only encouragement from them was to go to college, they had no advice to give me as it was new territory for them. Being a young naive geek I saw the commercials for going to school for game development, and I knew that was the greatest thing ever. My parents knew I was going to school, and that was all they cared about. Fast forward a year of drama, and I was starting an internship for Activision. While there, I quickly realized game companies have no interest in hiring people from these programs for anything other then testing positions. Admittedly with good reason, I remember having one good professor, and about four pretty shady professors. The decisions made at these places are profit driven. Even the accreditation is a facade. The accreditation is from another child company owned by the same corporation that owns the school. After the internship, I started looking for jobs at a help desk. I managed to land one pretty quickly, as I had some pretty good experience working at a cable station when I was in high school. What surprised me was I was now working full time with fellow graduates from my school! This was enough to completely convince me to quit the program altogether, and start looking around. The thing about an 18 year old making 40k is he doesn't understand just how little that is (even in Minnesota) after a few months I gave up the search, and started searching for a better job instead. At this point in time companies didn't care what kind of experience you had, I taught myself to program when I was twelve, and I taught myself C# since I was working nights at the help desk (and had lots of free time) It took about a month before I found a position working in a development lab for a fortune 500 company. When I started I was building servers, and before I left I was writing software to build servers. The experience I gained, and the technologies I worked with opened the door of possibilities wide open. I also got a significant pay raise twice. After a year and a half (thats two years since I left school) I had this vision of people my age graduating in 2 more years, then in another 3 or 4 years getting my level of experience. It might take 5 years but soon, I won't be the hotshot that I thought I was. So I decided to go back to school, this time I chose a Community College since it worked well with my full time schedule and was inexpensive, which was important since I was paying for it all myself (did i mention that a year at the for-profit school ate ALL my college money that my dad spent 18 years saving) The difference between the two schools was night and day. What value! my professors were truly professional, and knowledgeable on their subjects. The students were not hood rats, and did not interfere with classes. They spoke proper English, and had actual goals. Unfortunatley I decided to move from Minnesota to Boston after two Semesters because I was offered a great job (and the environment at the fortune 500 was getting extremely depressing) I'm happy here, I make 70k now which makes my father very happy but It's not the best I can do. My friends from school graduated about 8 months ago, and the last I talked to them not a single one has a job which doesn't matter to the school since it has made at least 700k from their tuition not including the 800k from the students in the class when i first started

nazgulnarsil2• 17 years ago

if profit is a bad word to you (go read history) what are you doing on this site?

clistctrl5• 17 years ago

Where in my post did you gather that I am against profit? I'm very much business oriented. The way these schools operate is my issue. I was trying to convey how they take advantage of young lower middle class children, I suppose I failed?

callahad3• 17 years ago

[Reposting for clear formatting. This post is worth reading. For reference to the original poster, don't try to indent your paragraphs, it makes Hacker News think you're trying to post a code snippet.]

When i was born my father started putting money away in tax-free Mutual Funds. With some help of the 90's boom, I had a nice college fund. My father went to Vietnam instead of college, and my mother... well she's a nice lady. So when i graduated my only encouragement from them was to go to college, they had no advice to give me as it was new territory for them. Being a young naive geek I saw the commercials for going to school for game development, and I knew that was the greatest thing ever. My parents knew I was going to school, and that was all they cared about. Fast forward a year of drama, and I was starting an internship for Activision. While there, I quickly realized game companies have no interest in hiring people from these programs for anything other then testing positions. Admittedly with good reason, I remember having one good professor, and about four pretty shady professors. The decisions made at these places are profit driven. Even the accreditation is a facade. The accreditation is from another child company owned by the same corporation that owns the school. After the internship, I started looking for jobs at a help desk. I managed to land one pretty quickly, as I had some pretty good experience working at a cable station when I was in high school. What surprised me was I was now working full time with fellow graduates from my school! This was enough to completely convince me to quit the program altogether, and start looking around. The thing about an 18 year old making 40k is he doesn't understand just how little that is (even in Minnesota) after a few months I gave up the search, and started searching for a better job instead. At this point in time companies didn't care what kind of experience you had, I taught myself to program when I was twelve, and I taught myself C# since I was working nights at the help desk (and had lots of free time) It took about a month before I found a position working in a development lab for a fortune 500 company. When I started I was building servers, and before I left I was writing software to build servers. The experience I gained, and the technologies I worked with opened the door of possibilities wide open. I also got a significant pay raise twice. After a year and a half (thats two years since I left school) I had this vision of people my age graduating in 2 more years, then in another 3 or 4 years getting my level of experience. It might take 5 years but soon, I won't be the hotshot that I thought I was. So I decided to go back to school, this time I chose a Community College since it worked well with my full time schedule and was inexpensive, which was important since I was paying for it all myself (did i mention that a year at the for-profit school ate ALL my college money that my dad spent 18 years saving) The difference between the two schools was night and day. What value! my professors were truly professional, and knowledgeable on their subjects. The students were not hood rats, and did not interfere with classes. They spoke proper English, and had actual goals. Unfortunatley I decided to move from Minnesota to Boston after two Semesters because I was offered a great job (and the environment at the fortune 500 was getting extremely depressing) I'm happy here, I make 70k now which makes my father very happy but It's not the best I can do. My friends from school graduated about 8 months ago, and the last I talked to them not a single one has a job which doesn't matter to the school since it has made at least 700k from their tuition not including the 800k from the students in the class when i first started

clistctrl5• 17 years ago

Thanks, I was trying to figure out why it formatted it like that.

pavel_lishin• 17 years ago

One paragraph break does not a reformatting make.

callahad3• 17 years ago

My snarkier side wants this to be tit-for-tat. If she believes her degree is worthless and is seeking reimbursement for tuition, should she also be allowed to retain her diploma?

DanielBMarkham• 17 years ago

Even more interesting, if the stats supported it, could you file a class-action for everyone that attended that school for that year, claiming mass fraud?

dkersten• 17 years ago

Then she should not only get her money back, but be compensated for lost time too.

blacktastic• 17 years ago

Tuition costs to join the middle-class are so high that most kids today end up in a form of indentured servitude in order to pay off the loans. I don't support the notion that universities and colleges are responsible for finding anyone a job, but the price these kids pay should be investigated.

I have my doubts as to whether the current loans for tuition model is sustainable.

Jobless IT graduate sues her college

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