Ask HN: How do you handle a co-founder that misses all goals?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7043668

by anonyfounder • 13 years ago

13 11 13 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

Hi HN,

I'm working on a new startup as a technical co-founder with another technical co-founder that I've known since college (~ 10 years.) We've been friends ever since, and about a year ago we decided to start this project. We've been working on a first version the entire time, and just can't seem to release. We broke the app up into manageable pieces, try to keep in constant contact (via email, Jabber, and for a while, an internal forum), and have very well-defined goals set up. I finished up my pieces (including a full test suite, etc.) months ago. He is still working on his piece, and says it'll be done "next week" or "just need to finish one more thing", but it never seems to happen. This has gone on for almost 4 months and we can't seem to get to the first finish line.

We have had several heart to heart conversations about it, I offer help if he needs it, whatever it takes to get us to the next stage, but he always refuses, saying that "he can handle it" and "not necessary, almost done this time."

I've looked at his code, and it does seem almost done, but it's barely different from where it was 3-4 months ago. I feel like I've tried everything to be supportive, but am running into a wall. We set our launch date to around 3 months ago, and keep pushing the launch date (and missing it). I've asked if there are other things in his life taking time away from working on this, but he always says no, he is super gung-ho, but then he disappears during times we've designated for work to go off to the movies or play XBOX and misses half the work session.

I really want to make this work, because this guy is my good friend and I really like him aside from this issue, but I don't know who I can ask - we don't really have anyone else working with us right now except an occasional freelance designer.

What can I do, HN?

bdfh42• 13 years ago

Fire your co-founder at the second failure - always - no regrets. You might then remain friends - the alternative is not worth exploring (or living through).

krmmalik• 13 years ago

While I agree the best option is for them to part ways I dont agree the co-founder should be fired. I've seen many situations like this with two sides to the story and while i'm not criticising the OP he/she hasnt cited any of their own short comings that could be contributing to this problem.

saiprashanth93• 13 years ago

Maybe this post will make you realize you gotta do what you have to do so that it doesn't become too late.

reeses• 13 years ago

Your cofounder should be like your life partner in this situation. You should not have let it get to this point without knowing what was going on. Fix it now by leveraging your friendship to see how you can balance things out.

If nothing else, show that your priority is to the friend. If it turns out his priority is not the same, well, lots of couples break up because one wanted kids and the other did not.

throwaway420• 13 years ago

I think people are too quick to say "fire the cofounder" in these situations. It's very easy for software development to take months longer than expected, even when you're about 95% done. Finishing stuff and having some judgement about when a product is ready is really, really hard.

The issue seems to be that he's telling you "just need to finish one more thing" every time. Get a list of exactly what needs to be done in this kind of format with estimated amount of time...

* Task a - estimate 5 hours * Task b - estimate 3 hours * Task c - estimate 15 hours * Task d - estimate 10 hours * Task e - estimate 5 hours

...and work methodically through the list.

adventured• 13 years ago

This is strictly an opinion of course, but it seems like your co-founder is afraid to launch (and everything that can go with it, like failure). Sometimes it's confused for perfectionism, but you can tell the difference by the lack of progress / improvement. Fear is one of the most common impediments to success, and people like to talk about it approximately as much as they might erectile dysfunction. Once you launch a project, your life changes; the pre-launch development stage is substantially different from the post-launch stage; it places demands on your shoulders that you can't shirk off (properly), it dictates a lot about your life. And there's no going back, it's sink or swim.

Talk to him about the situation openly, lay your concerns on the table. Try to get a drop dead date agreement, after which you take over the project.

davyjones• 13 years ago

I am not trolling. I have been looking around to team up as a co-founder. If interested and there is a match, maybe we can chug along forward.

richsin• 13 years ago

So many partnerships die because you believe the other person is capable of being responsible and disciplined. If he is having problems completing the task, this will be an ongoing issue guaranteed.

Also this seems very one sided and it usually never is. You must allow for a balance but at the same time hold people accountable. As throwaway420 said, become methodical.

In the case I am wrong and you have been a good partner, you need to cut the dead weight and find people who are as serious as you are. Whether it's this project or a new one, don't get stuck in these situations - its poison.

Also, you have to know when to walk away, for the sake of the friendship and your sanity. Get serious and stop being a friend, because he is slowing you down and this will NOT end well.

1. Have a meeting and let him know that you guys need to set a deadline for hitting that first finish line. This must be a hard deadline, meaning either he walks away from the project and you find someone else to take it up or you scrap the project all together. This seems very harsh and I recommend you try to word it positively, always hoping for it to be in the best interest of both of you. Don't be too nice though, because you should be upset, he's wasting your time.

2. Stick to your deadline and do what you say you will do. This is a life lesson. The only instance you should consider extending this deadline is if you see serious traction and even then, you set a hard deadline again. Traction is not an opportunity for you to go back to the way things were, stick to what works.

3. Start working on your backup plan. NOW. What will you do if this fails? If you need to find another developer, who will it be? How will you wind this down if it doesn't work out and still keep him as a friend? If you still believe in the idea and he doesn't want to hand it over, is it worth losing a friend over?

It's OK to be nice, but it's not OK to be taken advantage of. I was too nice when I first started doing business and I would always take pride in that even when I got screwed. Have no doubt, it may not be intentional, but this guy is taking advantage of your niceness. Put your foot down because your dreams and goals in life should never be in the hand of anyone other than your own. He may be driven and ambitious, but not as much as you are.

With the right co founder, they will push you as much as you push them. There is a momentum that a business needs in order to be successful, it is not an on/off switch. Talent is no excuse for stagnation and I hope this all works out for you.

tptacek• 13 years ago

1. You're probably not going to be successful without colocated founders.

2. What makes you think the milestones you've set up are reasonable? Most estimation in software development is fantastical.

3. If you're done with your component and your partner is in the weeds, it's not up for discussion whether you're going to pitch in on their component. The company can't have you idling.

4. People get demoralized easily. Your "cofounder" fits the description. Maybe he bit off more than he can chew; maybe his milestones were much harder to perform than yours. Maybe he just stumbled. Either way, it's not a problem that goes away by itself; the company has to fix it. You should have been able to spot it happening 3-4 months ago and fixed it then, but you weren't skilled enough to do that.

What can you do? First, learn from the experience. Here you are, done with your component, partner in the weeds, and, guess what? Moral superiority (not that you necessarily have it) gets you nowhere. Problems happen. The more problems you can foresee, the more you can discuss ahead of time how you'll handle them. But discussed or not, you need to get out of your own head, stop thinking about what you did get done versus what your partner didn't get done, and figure out how the company can move forward.

Moving forward here, I think you have two choices: you can give up on this particular partnership, or you can reassure your partner that everyone gets lost in the weeds sometimes and then renegotiate who's doing what pieces for the next month or so, and put things back together. Then, before your next sprint or whatever, have a long conversation that accepts the fact that one or the other of you aren't going to be successful at your personal piece of the project, and figure out how you'll handle that.

dctoedt• 13 years ago

Assuming you're in the U.S.: If you don't have a written agreement otherwise, then if you were to "fire" your co-founder, he might nonetheless remain a joint owner of the intellectual property. (The result would be basically the same if you previously formed a corporation or LLC but didn't provide for a break-up in the governing documents.)

If that were the case, then (A) you'd likely have a hard time attracting funding in the future, because your co-founder would still have an ownership claim; (B) your co-founder might well be able to start -- or license someone else to start -- a competing business; (C) your co-founder might be entitled to claim a share of the future profits of the business.

So, if you're going to go your separate ways, you might consider offering to buy out your co-founder, either in cash or for some (capped) percentage royalty on future revenues.

Food for thought.

squigs25• 13 years ago

I would say it's time to get confrontational.

One thing that separates a start-up from a regular company is that you shouldn't have normal office politics. You both (probably) have equalish equity so the only things preventing you from confrontation are the social norms and stigma against that.

At Paypal, people used to wrestle to settle arguments. I'm not saying that physical dominance is the right way to get things done, but I do think there should be a "no fear", open environment where people can be completely up front without worrying about hurting/offending their peers.

It's ok to say, "look, we need to have a no-excuses deadline, and we need to pull consecutive all-nighters to get it done."

It's also ok to spec out exactly what minimum requirements your product needs.

I can also say that I've been on teams where people weren't up front about problems that they had with me. It led to an unhealthy dynamic, and things didn't pan out.

Ask HN: How do you handle a co-founder that misses all goals?

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