TSA complaints are getting absurd

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6986469

by wohladki • 13 years ago

4 11 13 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

It's ridiculous the amount of people complaining about TSA on a regular basis. Yes you have to get to an airport early and submit to some waiting in line and checking of luggage. Guess what? Seems totally reasonable if it reduces the chances of letting someone dangerous on a plane with you. You wait in line for hours for a lot of ridiculous things like black friday shopping, a particularly crowded fast food joint, buying the latest and greatest iPhone (or other tech gadget). Waiting in line a little bit longer just to make the plane more safe than not is NOT A BAD DEAL! As for the privacy issue, yes it does suck to be patted down or have to walk through a body scan. But honestly, grow a pair and just walk through the damn thing. I have never felt harassed by a TSA agent and I've had the "lovely" experience of both a body scan and a pat-down... They are professional, do their job, and send you on your way. Doesn't take long, no one gets any pervy pleasure out of the experience, and the 2 whole minutes is not a huge inconvenience to my day. Plus, i'm a lot easier to racially profile than the lot of you complaining about the TSA and am pretty positive you don't have to put up with as much checking as I have.

And for the people making arguments about whether TSA checks actually reduce threats on a plane or just substitute them with other non-plane threats, I fail to see how just letting someone buy a ticket and walk onto a plane would be a positive change. Letting any Tom, Dick, or Harry on a plane with no safety measures would increase risk of random violence on a plane, fire arms/weapons on a plane, hijackings, etc. I would rather spend some time inconvenienced in a TSA security check 100/100 times than spend time on a hijacked flight 1/100 times (numbers are used to make a point, not depict an accurate probability of occurrence). I'm sure many of you would agree...

mkautzm• 13 years ago

Except death due to terrorist activity is so, so low, as to be virtually unmeasurable. We have better statistics about death's caused by lightning strikes than we do about death's caused by terrorist activity.

If the TSA was needed, I'd probably be a lot more acceptable, but at the end of the day, there is no evidence that suggests they stop terrorists attacks and there is no evidence that they make flights safer.

wohladki2• 13 years ago

I think people are losing a basic grasp of safety precautions in favor of the immediate gratification of easier travel. If we didn't have any checks at all, it would be far easier to disrupt flights and more likely than not increase dangerous occurrences. If TSA is an ineffective means of instituting these safety precautions, then let's propose an alternative solution. Would be much more productive than endlessly harping about how much TSA sucks.

jcape• 13 years ago

The phrase to describe this view is "false dichotomy": the answer is either someone sticks their fingers in my pants or taxis are allowed to drop people off at the stairs to the plane, 1950s style. There are shades of gray, and complaints about the TSA tend to take the form of "you are nearly black to no effect." I should also note that your language about "if the TSA is an effective means of instituting these safety precautions" is pure question begging. As though the only way to ensure security of travellers is to (effectively) strip search them all, but maybe if the TSA had an IG they would get around to deciding that nail clippers are not a problem sooner. Or perhaps the Bureau of Prisons would be better trained to handle airport security.

Regarding proposing solutions, Bruce Schneier, who was describing TSA efforts as "security theater" at least 5 years ago, is perhaps among the most famous: he's been on 60 Minutes over the issue, publicly debated the former head of the TSA, and testified before Congress as to what measures real security would entail. Just last week there was a humorously worded rant about the TSA's stunning lack of competence by the former head of Israeli airport security, Rafi Sela.

It's also worth noting that the biggest objectively measurable improvement to travellers' security is the change in attitude of travellers themselves. The belief of passengers that they will be flown to Cuba and a release negotiated was dispelled even before 9/11 was over. These days, when someone tries to light their shoes on fire, passengers can be reliably counted upon to beat them down. Literally.

headShrinker2• 13 years ago

Your justifications are misguided or just plan wrong for every reason of TSA existence and performance. You assume they are necessary. You assume they do a good job protecting us. You assume they are professional. You assume body imaging and body searches are not a bad deal. There is no evidence to prove this, and there is plenty of evidence to prove the opposite.

but honestly, grow a pair and walk through the damn thing.

It takes pair to not walk through. You seem to be confused about that.

Furthermore, I will never walk through your full body scanner for these reasons:

1) They have not been studied and properly tested medically over a mid to long time period. We have the word of the company who created them, telling us they are “safe”. You know what else was “safe” said the manufacture? Asbestos, DDT, mercury, X-rays, etc. Millimeter scanners are shooting high energy particles a the body’s dermis. High energy causes DNA replication issues.

2) These machines are medical imaging devices being implemented by high school educated people.

3) These machines can be fooled. Pancake devices slip through undetected.

4) These machines DO NOT detect PETN. I will say that again, they do not detect plastic explosives! This makes them useless and trivial.

5) We have the right to travel, unsearched, unless there is just cause. Times have changed from when the Bill Of Rights was written, thus the advent of metal detectors and bomb sniffing K9s. When we talk about “the slippery slope” these machines are about as far as you get before for things get out of control, ei: suspension of meranda-rights, torture, warrent-less wire-taps, militarization of local police, etc.

No, I will not pass through your body scanner, EVER! I will protest their existence forever in the form a polite “Opt Out” and a silent but complete disrespect for the TSA. They institute insulting useless security theater and I am not amused or fooled.

You should educate yourself about all the ways the government is invading your privacy, and where governments go from there. Then grow a pair and start to fight back.

drstewart• 13 years ago

I opt out of the body scanner every time but I find your mentality towards the TSA somewhat childish to be honest. I find it analogous to people who belittle and scream at fast food workers as if they're beneath them. You are not better than someone because they have a high school education.

headShrinker2• 13 years ago

I never insinuated that I was better than a high school education. I insinuated that someone operating medical imaging equipment should have some credentials in the medical field. I have a distrust and dislike for anyone who compromises my civil rights.

wohladki2• 13 years ago

Everything you said I assume is an assumption on your part. Nowhere have I said that the TSA is perfect, ideal, good, etc. I said that having the TSA is much preferable to having no screening measures whatsoever.

Nobody is claiming the TSA is ideal. Take a second to read the following comment - "If TSA is an ineffective means of instituting these safety precautions, then let's propose an alternative solution. Would be much more productive than endlessly harping about how much TSA sucks."

My main point is either propose a more effective solution or stop complaining. Because regardless of whatever your beliefs and protests are, complaining about the TSA will do nothing to get rid of them. And that is the main point, which can be generally applied to complaining about anything. Either fix [it] or live with [it]. You add nothing to the world by complaining about [it].

Segmentation• 13 years ago

I read an insightful comment on Reddit regarding yesterday's Russia train station bombings. It went something like "Because of the long lines due to slow security screening, terrorists are opting to target the long lines at airports or train stations instead of targeting the planes."

So, yea, TSA isn't going to fix that unless you have screening before the screening, and then you just have another line.

a3n• 13 years ago

It would probably be more effective to spend that money on preventing deaths from heart disease or cancer. Who gives a shit about "terrorism" except that it causes loss of life and economic disruption. The two things I mentioned cause much greater, measurable, and more disruptive loss of life than terrorism ever will. In fact the thing that is supposed to prevent terrorism, the TSA and its practices, is much more disruptive than the almost immeasurable increase in aircraft crime that would result. Based on how much there was before the TSA.

pedalpete• 13 years ago

Look at the history of hijackings in the US http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_hijackings. I was surprised to see that over time, the number of hijackings has been fairly flat through the 90s and the 00s, while there was a considerable drop from the high level of the 70s and 80s.

I don't think anybody is suggesting getting rid of airport security all together, but rather that we be smart about it. The current system is too invasive and annoying without providing any more protection than the old system.

mrjatx• 13 years ago

Have you ever had an ACTUAL issue with a TSA agent, not simple search/bodyscans?

Earlier this year I had a planned vacation and unfortunately lost (stolen wallet) my drivers license prior to the flight. I had enough time to goto my License office to request a temporary which here in Texas means you get a paper ID with your picture on it for 3-5 weeks until the new license arrives.

So I showed up with my paper ID and all I had to do was fly from Austin to Miami. I knew the paper ID would get scoffed at but assumed they were well trained in the various temporary/permanent IDs that states provide for emergencies. Ha! I decided to bring my birth certificate, social security card, and a utility bill (my passports expired, else that would have been logical) in the event that TSA had a problem with the paper ID. Figured I'd go prepared.

Well, lo and behold every single TSA agent outside of Texas not only grilled me about the paper ID, they didn't care at all about the fact that I also had the other items (birth cert, ss card, util bills). Because I had a temporary ID I was pulled out of every line, called a "No ID" (this became so frequent that I eventually wound up walking up to every agent and stating "Hi, I'm a no ID, here's my paperwork"), privately searched over and over and in two cases missed my flight that I'd arrived 2-4 hours early for. These were FTL to Austin flights that evidently only happen once or twice a day with the carrier I had my ticket through (Jetblue I think). I wound up in Miami an extra two days and basically lived at the airport at that point. I ALMOST missed my cruise completely, luckily the bulk of my issues were getting BACK home after it.

It took that much time for them to decide that I was who I said I am. I would get bounced from agent to agent, each who would personally search me, the one step below strip search search- not the pat on the back type. They'd offer to do a private search (meaning in the security room) but after mutiple searches in one-two hours I just said screw it, do it here in front of everyone and get it over with. Then I'd have to wait for a superior to come out and decide whether or not I was legally allowed to pass. The most amazing thing to me was that every single TSA agent seemed like they had NEVER, EVER dealt with a temporary ID before. Like I was this black plague that wasn't covered in their rule book at any point in time, or they were told that, my god, if somebody ever shows up with a temporary ID they are CLEARLY up to something.

Prior army, raised on Army bases all over the world, I've never felt like such a non-citizen in my life. I have the utmost sympathy for people who are systematically treated poorly by the TSA due to their attire/skin color.

I do absolutely everything I can to NOT fly nowadays. I also do not wait in line during Black Friday nor do I wait in line for a fast food restaurant. Those are pretty weak assumptions.

I went on a cruise and the Customs officers had absolutely no issue with my temporary license and documentation.

TSA complaints are getting absurd

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