North Korean Officials Flood to China, Possible Mass Defection

http://www.koreabang.com/2013/stories/north-korean-officials-flood-to-china-possible-mass-defection.html

by notastartup • 13 years ago

135 83 13 years ago

tokenadult• 13 years ago

I've checked twice in the last hour, and so far I'm not seeing any uptake of this story by any other news organization. One of the best illustrations of what a tyrannical country the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is is the news vacuum most of the world encounters when trying to find out what's going on there. The ruling party doesn't want the common people of north Korea to know what's going on in their own country, so pervasive censorship and government surveillance make it difficult for anyone to find out what's going on there. I look forward to the day when the people of north Korea can make a transition to civil liberty and democratic, constitutional government.

deletes• 13 years ago

I don't know how long can they keep them ignorant, given the constant technological advancements. For example mobile phones were banned, but are legal now and a lot of people have them.

SEJeff3• 13 years ago

You're forgetting than most NK people are brainwashed from birth and have for 3-4 generations how wonderful NK is and that the rest of the world is so awful.

notastartup4• 13 years ago

It's hard to get any footage out of North Korea but Rimjingang Media employs North Korean civilians to take hidden camera into North Korea. The footage returned are shocking.

http://www.asiapress.org/rimjingang/english/

derefr• 13 years ago

Wouldn't verification of this story just require talking to the North Korean expatriates in China, though? They have no particular reason to censor their speech.

meepmorp2• 13 years ago

They have no particular reason to censor their speech.

They're possible asylum seekers in a nominally allied state, who've (supposedly) fled a totalitarian regime that's shown no compunction about assassinating critics abroad. I can see why they'd not either make their location known, nor wish to talk to foreign media.

And that's assuming the story is true.

schuke• 13 years ago

China officially don't take North Korean refugees. Once you're identified there's a real risk of being deported back to North Korea.

rbobby• 13 years ago

Except any family, including extended, left behind.

ck22• 13 years ago

Apparently the execution was over who controls profits from their shellfish exports.

You'd think they would maybe feed their people with the profits.

If they get that nuclear bomb in portable form, there is going to be hell with that child at the helm.

67726e• 13 years ago

Oh and he was educated in the USA, another one we raised.

Can you supply a source for that claim? I've only read into the the Kim family a bit, but my impression was that most of the family members were educated in other socialist countries or somewhere neutral/friendly like Switzerland.

ck22• 13 years ago

I edited that one out, I was very mistaken. Thinking of someone else.

SEJeff3• 13 years ago

A Korean Joffrey Baratheon!

Crito• 13 years ago

If they get a portable nuke, it will still be the same old shit. Even with 10 nuke tipped rockets (they have placed a satellite in orbit, in theory they can make ICBMs) the scenario does not fundamentally change for them. They either pound one city (Seoul) or a dozen, but at most a few days later they are rubble.

Even in their best case scenario, hundreds of nukes on ICBMs, the most they could count on would be a 'mutually ensured destruction' draw.

The only "winning" scenario they have is staying all bark, no bite. Maintaining the status-quo is the best they can do, which is why they've been doing it for decades.

moocowduckquack10• 13 years ago

I think the image in the article may have been photoshopped though.

henrikschroder• 13 years ago

Oh wow, those comments were interesting to read. Why the hostility towards North-korean spies? That spy program must have an exceptionally low success rate given that once you're outside North Korea, you will find out what the state of your country actually is compared to the rest of the world, and then what motication would you have to do your job?

The only thing I can think of that would keep them in check is that their family is being held hostage, but that would also make all of them extremely motivated to become double agents?

blhack• 13 years ago

Read here about a sushi chef from Japan that worked for the Kims:http://www.gq.com/news-politics/newsmakers/201306/kim-jong-i...

Double_Cast• 13 years ago

Thanks for the read. The story felt surreal.

Jach3• 13 years ago

Ever heard of the Amish? Some people aren't all that impressed with the state of the wider world or have any interest in its pleasures.

Gosh, why doesn't everyone want to have the same ruling government, the same local culture, and the same new iPhone? Bellies will be full too!

Turing_Machine4• 13 years ago

The Amish do that by choice.

Based on my limited experience of Korean culture (I have a dozen or so Korean friends) the number of Koreans who would willingly choose to live a primitive lifestyle is....minimal.

camus2• 13 years ago

Are you really comparing the Amish to the north korean? Are you insane?

brownbat• 13 years ago

1. True believers of the Juche idea are more likely to get postings abroad, and brainwashing from childhood is remarkably effective, 2. The lack of regimented lifestyle and strictly formalized social interactions can make the outside world as frightening to some North Koreans as living in North Korea would be to us, [1] 3. You must return with enormous amounts of hard currency to pay bribes to everyone involved in sending you abroad, so you're kind of constantly hustling, and probably too focused on those daily practical necessities to think about radically changing your life, [1] 4. Some spies do defect, the real defection rate probably isn't publicized by anyone on either side. [2]

[1] These themes are hit upon in some of the "inside NK" lit, I especially liked "A Year in Pyongyang." A bit dated, but NK nonfiction holds up well with age, and it's all free online: http://www.aidanfc.net/a_year_in_pyongyang_1.html

[2] Former NK spy: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/08/29/former-north-korean-sp...

InclinedPlane• 13 years ago

Why not do research on it instead of just putting forward your uninformed opinion?

As it turns out the North Korean spy program is actually surprisingly successful. It has been responsible for everything from terrorist attacks that have downed airliners (Korean Air Flight 858) to assassination attempts on the South Korean Prime Minister (Blue House Raid, Rangoon bombing) to abductions of foreign nationals so that they can be used as teachers or laborers in North Korea.

And that's aside from their covert weapons trade including trade in missile and WMD technology. Iran's long range ballistic missile systems, for example, are based mostly off of DPRK technology.

judk2• 13 years ago

This is why many (including me) believe that US's greatest defense against foreign terrorists attacking US soil is to make the US so supportive of immigrants that attackers would just defect on arrival.

valgaze• 13 years ago

For anybody unaware, there is a whole network of sites like this that translate native language stories and commentary into English (depends on the editors, but the content varies from serious news stories like this to silly/interesting slice-of-life stuff from reaction on internet forums).

China: http://www.chinasmack.com Indonesia: http://www.indoboom.com Russia: http://www.russiaslam.com Japan: http://www.japancrush.com Korea: http://www.koreabang.com

notastartup4• 13 years ago

Here's the original Korean article translated to English

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ko&tl=en&prev...

Often South Korean newspapers are the first to get news about North Korea as South Korean intelligence groups have good source of HUMINT gathered from North Korean defectors and officials willing to give up state secrets in exchange for safety and money.

There were notable cases of high ranking North Korean officials defecting to the South, for example Mr. Hwang (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hwang_Jang-yop) and even Kim Jong-Il's relatives like Mr. Yi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yi_Han-yong) who was gunned down in an elevator while living in South Korea by North Korean agents.

ChuckMcM• 13 years ago

I'm never sure how to take these stories, but they provide a good litmus test of my emotions.

I wonder sometimes if these sorts of things are 'leaked' to see if anyone inside the country will flinch and take action, sometimes I wonder if they are wishful thinking on the part of people would like to see the PRK gone. It is always unsettling though to have a nuclear power that is quite unstable near a critical resource to the work (S. Korea). So emphasizing that instability is a great tool for news services to ratchet of the fear views.

Lets consider three possible scenarios:

1) I its a hoax.

Ok, so far (5:30PST) the mainstream press hasn't picked it up (and they would if they had any sort of confirmation). Who benefits? Asia Press?

2) Its disinformation.

So if the PRK "leaked" this to flush out malcontents in the PRK, how would that work? Would people who read this self identify as potential targets and head for the hills? (Thus calling them out as targets for the current government)

3) Its "real"

And there are a bunch of high level military and diplomatic personnel in China waiting to be processed through into the country. What is the PRK reaction? Anger? Retailiation? Do they do something stupid and try to kill their missing minions in China?

All it does it raise questions.

robbiep• 13 years ago

How would it work to 'flush' out malcontents within PRK? It's not like they have freedom of information. How would this even be reported? Surely this information, be it true of false, has arisen from Chinese or South Korean sources

Aqueous• 13 years ago

Perhaps higher level officials in the North Korean government can avail themselves of uncensored Internet access? It's possible.

barrkel• 13 years ago

I also wonder about the degree of Western propaganda at work too. Stories about the evilness of specific regimes conveniently saturate the press before governments want to take action.

EliRivers3• 13 years ago

Given that a couple of decades of nuclear weapons testing and posturing didn't cause any action, I don't think this is going to be the trigger.

moocowduckquack10• 13 years ago

I am not so sure you have to go about inventing stuff to target North Korea though. Anything you invent is going to be nowhere near as batshit as the official pronouncements of the regime itself.

AndrewKemendo• 13 years ago

It's not on Chosun Ibo and that is the most reliable source for actual defections and general DPRK instability warning.

http://english.chosun.com/

yongjik2• 13 years ago

Chosun Ilbo might sometimes have some information, but they are basically South Korea's Fox News. You can trust them to have more misinformation than anyone else.

A typical example: in 1998, Chosun Ilbo led a witch hunt against a liberal historian (Choi Jangjip) based on one of his history paper contained the phrase "...thus Kim Il-Sung made the historic decision of invading South Korea." Chosun Ilbo's rationale: only good things can be called "historic". Choi just described Kim's invasion as a historic decision. Clearly he thinks North Korea was right in starting the Korean War: he's a commie!

Apparently the Korean wikipedia has a whole article on the shitness of Chosun Ilbo: http://ko.wikipedia.org/wiki/%EC%A1%B0%EC%84%A0%EC%9D%BC%EB%...

These "conservatives" also have been saying North Korea will fall any day since Kim Il-Sung died in 1994, so take their "instability warning" with a grain of salt. Somehow the NK government keeps defying everybody's hope that it would die (or change) someday.

notastartup4• 13 years ago

It's basically the 386 generation (just like Intel 386!) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/386_Generation in Korea, now holding the jobs as professors, teachers, politicians, lawyers and judges that arouse a lot of suspicion from the previous generation which were right wing unlike the 386 who are left wing. The 386 were largely responsible for electing a left wing government from 1998 to 2003, and 2003 to 2008. That's 10 years of anti-American, pro-sunshine policy (billions of slush funds sent to North Korea used to build their ICBM today) which has largely turned into a gun pointed at South Korea. Because of the naive blinding trust that South Korean left wings placed in Nouth Korea, it has resulted in an increasingly dangerous standoff with North Korea (supposedly has mini nukes now thanks to the 1998~2008 administration), much of South Korea understandably has growing animosity towards left-wing supporters. I admit, there is a blanket identification with left-wing being pro-North Korea which is simply not true, but this is unfortunately the case with South Korea, where herd mentality is still rampant.

The fear of North Korean support within South Korea from the left leaning group is well founded. Recently, a member of the national assembly was found to have been part of a group called RO (Revolutionary Organization, how original) and evidence of coordinated sabotage on sensitive infrasturcture in case a war breaks out with the North. RO was found to have been in contact with North Korean agents in the United States.

It's no wonder the 'red scare' is very real in Korea. The list of spies currently operating in South Korea is in the unknown figure but widely suspected to be hiding in plain sights (if a national assemblyman was actively promoting terrorism, imagine where else they could be).

Various professors and educational board in South Korea have been caught attempting to change the history of Korean War by putting North Korea in a favorable light.

The list goes on and on.

However, I would agree Chosun Ilbo is the most right wing out of all.

I think that there is even more chance of collapse in Korea because of the recent purge (Jang was China's go-to-guy, practical and a moderate), Kim Jong Un would be unbridled and trigger happy and that their revenue streams have taken a toll. All the more reasons to build

revelation• 13 years ago

Why go to China when you want to defect to South Korea? I mean I know the obvious answer: the border between the two can't be passed.

But what's in it for China to pass them on to the South?

Also of course, general disclaimer: this may be misinformation by SK to help a perceived revolutionary tide.

dba7dba3• 13 years ago

Yes, that's why China is helping N Korean agents hunt down and return the would be refugees.

Nah, I doubt even S Korean govt would welcome a reunified korea. The cost and turmoil will be enormous...

igravious• 13 years ago

Horseshit. A reunified Korea would be a global economic powerhouse within a generation, anybody with eyes in their skull can see that. And the humanitarian benefits to the entire population of the North would be immense, turmoil and cost be damned.

Houshalter• 13 years ago

The titles in the sidebar:

Korean Government Turns Its Back on Abandoned Babies
Korean Woman Kills Stepdaughter By Force Feeding Her Salt
Man Forces Three Runaway Middle School Girls into Prostitution

Wtf humans? Not that it compares to the atrocities in North Korea.

sifarat2• 13 years ago

I hate democracy, but I will choose it over any other method for transfer of power. The only credit I can give to democracy is, it ensures transfer of power without bloodshed and in a civilized manner, rest is all crap as we know it.

moocowduckquack10• 13 years ago

Given that people in general are often confused, disorganised and prone to bouts of extreme irrationality for extended periods of time and this seems to apply at all sections of society, I am pretty amazed really that we have any ways of even slightly reliably transferring power without bloodshed.

Democracy isn't perfect, but neither are people when you get down to it, I mean, I used to be annoyed with how rubbish a lot of stuff is, but the more I pay attention to how people actually are, the more cheerfully impressed I am that anything works at all.

chongli2• 13 years ago

Why do you hate democracy?

sifarat2• 13 years ago

because it counts people not value them.

ballard2• 13 years ago

Regardless, gotta love how Dennis Rodman looks the other way and doesn't give a shit about people.

North Korean Officials Flood to China, Possible Mass Defection

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