Say Hello to Underachieving

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/05/fashion/05summer.html

by peter123 • 17 years ago

21 14 17 years ago

anigbrowl3• 17 years ago

From my own experience, I can say 'don't feel bad, this is character-forming and will give you insights you can use later'. At the same time, unpaid internships are a scam.

bravura• 17 years ago

No, you are completely wrong. Taking a paid summer job that is "character-forming" just to make ends meet instead of pursuing the career you want is just a diversion. Any time someone says that something builds character, I am very suspicious.

"Unpaid internships are a scam?" Wrong. You have never heard the wisdom that you should give the first one away.

Obviously, you've never tried to work in a highly competitive industry in which it is difficult to judge aptitude. Most of these jobs are filled by networking and word-of-mouth references.

If you want to work in, say, fashion, it will be nearly impossible to get a decent gig if you don't first work as an unpaid intern in NYC. (Unless, of course, daddy is rich and powerful.) So you start at the bottom, doing shitty menial work for an established person, and working hard, and then you leverage their professional network and credibility to work your way up the ladder. At the very least, this system filters out people who can't get shit done.

jerf• 17 years ago

"Taking a paid summer job that is "character-forming" just to make ends meet instead of pursuing the career you want is just a diversion."

Alternatives? Remember, this is after the "pursuing the career you want" was already tried, not before.

This story could be about my little sister. Her degree is in social work. Putting aside for a moment the wisdom of that (ahem), what is she supposed to do? Entrepreneur-up a job or something? We aren't all in computer programming, where we should if nothing else at least be resume-building with work in open source. That's the exception.

anigbrowl3• 17 years ago

Oh, am I. Yes, economic necessity can be a diversion, and it's important to ensure you don't get trapped by said diversion. But to think you can't learn anything from being diverted is foolish. You can, and you can leverage that experience in a variety of ways so in that sense it is not a terminal disaster.

Actually, I do work in a highly competitive industry of the kind you describe, the film business, and networking and word of mouth does matter. And I've done a lot of free work to get a toehold in it - in that sense, my comments were far too general and therefore wrong. On the other hand, those were mostly cooperative ventures where everyone was working for free or nominal payment.

Let me rephrase: unpaid internships at well-established, highly profitable companies are a scam. If you can afford the risk of having a clueless newbie around, you can afford to pay them minimum wage. If the work needs doing, then plainly it has some economic value. So does the learning environment for the intern, but that doesn't pay the rent while they're working for you. Landlords, retailers etc. aren't in the business of giving the first one away, they tend to request money up front.

It's not the shitty menial work I object to, mastering those tasks with a smile is an essential quality in many industries. It's the willingness to exploit people when you can afford to pay them without any significant cost to yourself. Shitty menial work on internships does filter out people who can't get shit done, have an entitlement attitude etc. Unpaid internships filter out anyone anyone who doesn't have a financial safety net, regardless of their skillset, motivation, or potential benefit to your organization. Working a second job for that period can be impractical, considering that the eager intern wants to give 110% to show off how great they are.

Is it really too much to ask that in return for such a commitment, someone should get paid enough to afford food, laundry, transit and a bed to sleep in?

ori_b2• 17 years ago

I'd say the way you described unpaid internships, it is pretty much exploitation. The intern is doing essential and valuable work, and is producing value for the company. They should be compensated for it.

The fact that the system is set up to encourage people working for free is simply a setup for exploitation. A mild form of blackmail, if you will; "You'll never get ahead if you don't work for me for free". While an intern might not get paid very much, I think they should at least be able to cover living costs from their earnings.

Most internships I've seen tend to cover a good deal more than that, with pay starting in the ballpark of $20/hour.

grinich• 17 years ago

College-aged kids living in a shabby apartment. One's eating noodles and the other is typing on his laptop.

I bet it even smells like a startup.

pmorici• 17 years ago

Article implies that was their parent's house...

Oompa2• 17 years ago

So start a company. I (thought I) had an internship lined up for this summer too, it ended up falling through, so I ended up starting a new company.

ori_b2• 17 years ago

So what happens to the company at the end of the summer when you go back to school? Will you have enough time to run it, or will it sort of die off slowly?

Oompa2• 17 years ago

That part has yet to be seen. Hopefully, I'll have enough time to run my part, since I'm in it with 2 others.

timwiseman• 17 years ago

I completely miss the point of the article. I do not know what was normal nation-wide, but I went to a State School (Oklahoma State University) and most of my peers worked through the summer to save up to have a little spending money for the next year.

Yes, a few, mostly those with well off parents, spent the time traveling or taking unpaid internships. A few others, mostly those that were both intelligent and worked exceptionally hard, got paid internships. But most of my friends and myself went off to the summer work this article speaks so derisively off.

The other thing this article seems to forget about is that if you have the time available it seems to talk about then it is a great time to do study and development on your own. It was a great time to read about the things you heard about but didn't have time to go in depth during class or to look at subjects not normally taught in schools, or at a minimium to read about the subjects that were coming next semester.

Say Hello to Underachieving

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