The work ethic of MJ - amazing tales from the studio by his engineers

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much-gear-so-little-time/401331-robmix-tell-us-about-mj.html

by imajes • 17 years ago

181 33 17 years ago

imajes2• 17 years ago

look out for stuff from resonater and robmix - totally cool stuff about how they cut some of his most famous work together.

madh• 17 years ago

yea these stories are amazing.

GavinB• 17 years ago

If you're interested in audio recording or mixing, gearslutz is the place. I haven't posted there in a while but there's a lot in common with HN.

This thread is recent but there's some great older stuff that I recall. Check out this thread from Bruce Swedien - http://www.gearslutz.com/board/bruce-swedien/83165-seven-peo... (scroll down for the bit about MJ)

Edit: Here's a story from Bruce about recording and mixing Billie Jean - http://www.gearslutz.com/board/bruce-swedien/84587-real-stor...

imajes2• 17 years ago

Yeah- the newer thread keeps referring to Swedien's work - that's another great thread. Thanks for finding it!

michael_dorfman• 17 years ago

The "Billie Jean" story definitely has a lesson for software development.

mattjung• 17 years ago

The Billie-Jean-Story sounds very familiar to me. Improving things a thousand time until you understand that the first version,closest to the original idea, was the best...

catch23• 17 years ago

> At one point Michael was angry at one of the producers on the project because he was treating everyone terribly. Rather than create a scene or fire the guy, Michael called him to his office/lounge and one of the security guys threw a pie in his face. No further action was needed . . . . .

Interesting management style. We should do that at our startup :-)

schammy• 17 years ago

Good stuff. I found the bit about how he was a "huge fan" of NIN's downward spiral interesting, since a few lines above it said he refused to curse. Someone who's against cursing doesn't seem like they could like a NIN record. He must have just really liked the engineering of the album. I'll hand it to the team that made it, downward spiral is one of the coolest sounding records I've ever heard.

rms• 17 years ago

Check out the relatively obscure MJ song Morphine from Blood on the Dance Floor, which is decidedly influenced by Reznor. Morphine is one of those eerie songs where Michael practically predicts his own downfall. It's incredibly sad.

frig• 17 years ago

There's a lot of reznor-sound in 'they don't care about us also', at least to my ears.

jacquesm3• 17 years ago

I fail to see the relevance for HN but it was a nice read anyway... too much mj coverage alltogether.

TrevorJ• 17 years ago

I agree that it is a stretch.

jacquesm3• 17 years ago

-4 already eh ? Did I offend someone ?

gabrielroth• 17 years ago

Yes, by violating this guideline: "Please don't submit comments complaining that a submission is inappropriate for the site. If you think something is spam or offtopic, flag it by going to its page and clicking on the "flag" link."

http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

zimbabwe• 17 years ago

You offended me, by suggesting that Michael Jackson posts can all be easily grouped together. This one was fascinating and in-depth.

danbmil99• 17 years ago

I was an audio engineer in the 80's, worked with the Buttholes and De La Soul, and hundreds of artists not lucky enough to be remembered.

Many of them sucked, but almost all of them worked their asses off. A few of them were brilliant (the Butthole Surfers, IMSHO). I like some of MJ's music, but frankly I don't think he was a genius songwriter. Great performer, and had some nice hit songs.

I think something is gone with that era, in that now it's just the artist and his/her computer. No big setup, no 'control room', no tape assist punching in the vocals. No girlfriends snoring on the couch. And obviously, no band playing everything at once (that wasn't even really going on by the time I was working, though you did do things like bass/drums/guitar together with a rough vocal if it made sense for the song).

Like stained glass and the Saturn V, the art of making these kinds of records is going to be lost forever.

sterwill• 17 years ago

Stained Glass and the Saturn V would be a great band name.

pie• 17 years ago

I can only feebly imagine what it must have been like to do studio work with the Butthole Surfers in the 80s. Which recordings did you do?

newsio• 17 years ago

I worked in a London recording studio in the early 90s. One thing many people may not be aware of is how slow the process of recording and mixing is in a studio setting (we didn't do mastering). There was unfortunately a lot of down time for people who might be needed in the studio for a certain task but had to wait around for other people to finish their tasks.

This was also a transition period from the analog to the digital era. Analog gear was still used (such as the tape decks) but sequencers, compressors, electronic gates and other tools were also filling up the racks in the back of the studio. I have to say that they took away a lot of the spontaneity of recording music. Everything had to be matched to a click track and many takes and overdubs were required to get things "perfect". For dance music or songs with a heavy electronic component, this doesn't surprise me, but for rock it seems a little ... fake.

IMHO some of the best studio recordings were the ones that were done "live" with minimal overdubs, such as Husker Du's Zen Arcade and stuff from the early days of rock and roll. And good live performances can really show the soul of a band that may not be apparent in complex, layered studio recordings. I am thinking of The Who's Live at Leeds or that DVD/CD of Queen performing in Montreal in 1981. I saw Soundgarden put on an amazing performance once that really moved me in a way that was different than listening to their great studio records.

norimaki• 17 years ago

In light of how embattled Jackson was by the media and forgotten by the public until recently, it's interesting to see how his death has changed the discussion - words like 'freak' and 'pedophile' replaced with 'genius' and 'work ethic'.

Goladus• 17 years ago

He wasn't forgotten, it's just that people paid attention to him in their own way in their own time. (He had been in the news for the London concerts, after all). His death gives everyone a chance to share thoughts and pay attention all at once.

enneff2• 17 years ago

I've always discussed Jackson in those latter terms, and so have many with whom I've talked of him. Not everyone is blindsided by the tabloid media.

electromagnetic• 17 years ago

Obviously so many people were blind-sided by the tabloids the first time. He hasn't been convicted of any crime, over 70 police officers searched his home and found nothing, but obviously a lack of conviction doesn't mean anything to you or the media conviction he was given.

The man obviously had a bizarre personal life, in fact his life was outright bizarre from young childhood when their father forced them to perform. So I'm sorry, but when parents allowed their kids to stay at his house unsupervised, the parents should have been under criminal investigation too.

No conviction, no crime. It's essentially how the whole innocent until proven guilty system works, but obviously you don't care that a man hasn't been charged for paedophilia, you just want to call an innocent man one anyway. Kudos on only believing the bad things about people in the media and believing none of the good things.

jacoblyles• 17 years ago

It always warms my heart when the internet produces a relevant and interesting bit of original content. Sometimes I think this whole enterprise might actually have value.

parenthesis• 17 years ago

This is a really interesting in-depth piece about the recording of 'Black or White' (and the Dangerous album, in general):

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/aug04/articles/classictracks...

dionidium• 17 years ago

Along those lines, Quincy and Bruce used to have a saying while they were mixing. One of them would turn to the other and say, "I think we're mixing past the money", which meant...okay, now we're no longer improving it...it was better a mix or two ago, and the mixing would stop.

"Mixing past the money" perfectly describes a feeling I often have while refactoring code. What a perfect phrase!

kadavy• 17 years ago

What an awesome thread, thanks for this. It's nice to hear some memories straight from someone who worked with him, rather than filtered through the media.

cema• 17 years ago

This was indeed interesting and enriching.

(And I am not a fan of MJ!)

mlLK• 17 years ago

Sure as hell beats the crap out of TV Guide's coverage for remembering Michael.

sandGorgon• 17 years ago

Once, while we were taking a break, I think we were actually watching the OJ chase on TV, there was a news program talking about him being in Europe with some little boy. I was sitting next to the guy while the news is making this crap up. He just looked at me and said this is what I have to deal with. http://www.gearslutz.com/board/4325168-post15.html

The work ethic of MJ - amazing tales from the studio by his engineers

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