Indian generics and AIDS

http://www.frontline.in/social-issues/indian-generics-and-aids/article5228850.ece

by rrrazdan • 13 years ago

149 47 13 years ago

eriksank• 13 years ago

In many ways, and definitely in more ways than one, India is a fantastic resource, with their talent and tremendous headcount. India is definitely not a "pirate" state. I believe to have read that the Indian Navy is even involved in protecting merchant shipping lanes off the Somalia coast. The only qualms I have, is with the licence Raj, the paperwork kingdom, that ruins business opportunities all across India ...

monsterix2• 13 years ago

Indian Navy is even involved in protecting merchant shipping lanes off the Somalia coast.

Yes, it is true that Indian Navy/Coast Guard protects and also helpfully escorts maritime around that area [1].

It also protects the original untouched Sentinalese[2] tribes off the Andaman & Nicobar islands on the other side. Historically, our country has NEVER gone and attacked anyone in the past 3000 years. Sometimes because of our own resilience and other times because of our stupid prime minister.

[1] http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7736885.stm

[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Sentinel_Island

licence Raj, the paperwork kingdom, that ruins business opportunities all across India.

You're bang on this one. It's those 50-60 odd corrupt assholes on the top which make life hell for the rest of the population. Pretty similar to how things are here in the US, albeit the corruption part(?). Only magnified.

aadvaark• 13 years ago

Invasions / raids have occurred in the past http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chola_Navy

kamaal3• 13 years ago

>Pretty similar to how things are here in the US

Would like to know more about this. Are there same kind of bureaucratic hassles in US too?

I thought in some states like Delaware the taxes are too low and therefore makes sense to start up there. I've also heard similar things about Singapore.

I've never traveled outside India, and would love to know more about things in the US.

steve192• 13 years ago

Maybe it's a joke I do not understand, but your country has been a battleground for years, kingdoms attacking other kingdoms for 1000s of year and more recently every so often Indian troops fire accross the line of control killing Pakistan soldiers (sure, Pakistan does it at least as much if not more).

gman99• 13 years ago

>our country has NEVER gone and attacked anyone in the past 3000 years.

Well, our country didn't exist pre-1947, but we're arguing semantics now. Still, it's kindof bonkers to define the border of a fairly young "nation" over a period of 3000years. If you do that, then you need to consider the Mughal campaigns in Central Asia as they attacked Samarkhamd (Persia) as well as Kandahar (also persian held at the time). Or do you not consider them Indian?

OK then, consider that the Chola empire conquered sections of South East Asia. But perhaps you dismiss these conquests as exaggerations? (note that there is overwhelming evidence that atleast ports were raided even if there was no lasting presence -- it's still an "attack")

But if we are going to be pedantic, even post-Independence India declared war on Portugal and is considered the aggressor state when it "invaded" Goa: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Goa

sateesh• 13 years ago

It is specious to say that India has not invaded anyone in past 3000 years are so. The idea of India as a country is a fairly recent one. May be with some liberty we can consider 1857, year of Sepoy Mutiny as the starting point for idea of India as a single country. Prior to that the vast territory was divided among kingdoms battling against each other (Cholas against Chalukyas, Vijayanagar Empire against Bahamni Kingdom, Tippu against Marathas and so on).

prakashk• 13 years ago

It's those 50-60 odd corrupt assholes on the top ...

Are you saying that corruption exists only among this limited group of individuals?

polar• 13 years ago

Historically, our country has NEVER gone and attacked anyone in the past 3000 years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rajendra_map_new.png

sandGorgon2• 13 years ago

India is going to be (if not already) one of the largest consumers of Linux and other open source software.

I find it sad that most OSS conferences are held in Europe or USA, where you will find everyone toting Macbooks. Do note that I dont begrudge this and I do understand that it is the birthplace of most software.

However, I do wish that the chief developers reach out to the Indian community and help establish a vibrant ecosystem before we achieve Apple affordability.

kamaal3• 13 years ago

India is easily one of the largest consumers of Linux. But consumer has a different meaning than contributor.

>I find it sad that most OSS conferences are held in Europe or USA

Bangalore has its own version. Its called FOSS.in, there is also a Pycon. We also have regular conferences, meetups and hack nights. Checkout this Bangalore based company called HasGeek(https://hasgeek.com/)

The ecosystem is no where as mature as silicon valley, there is no where the kind of VC ecosystem like silicon valley. And YC like initiatives are non-existent.

And yet despite all this, nearly every one good I know has a namesake large company job while they are starting up on the side. There is massive start up interest and we are well past the days where people used to aspire for large company jobs. Though Ivy league degrees, and strong alumni connection gets you fat pay checks at big companies. People are beginning to match that with their own start ups.

Long way to go for us. But the opportunities are immense.

dirkgently• 13 years ago

I find it sad that most OSS conferences are held in Europe or USA, where you will find everyone toting Macbooks.

And how I weep, every time I see it.

Pxtl2• 13 years ago

The problem is that the macbook really is the best piece of laptop hardware on the market. The only other product that comes close in terms of build-quality and design is the Chromebook Pixel, and that one is a very niche device.

For a long time the laptop makers ceded the high-quality market to Apple and kept making cheap plastic crap. Even their high-end products were still plastic crap, just plastic crap containing better electronics.

After years and years, we're seeing makers like Asus and Dell take quality design seriously in their top end. But it's very late for that and Apple has a very strong hold on that market, and plus these companies sabotage their brand by making low-quality crap as well.

I mean, look at something like an HP Elitebook - a solidly built piece of hardware, but ugly as sin and plus every time HP tries to sell something high-end they're having to overcome the customer's bad memories of some horrible Pavilion.

DanBC• 13 years ago

Cheap generics were very important in the fight against HIV / AIDS in Africa.

But there were other problems with HIV / AIDS treatment. Government ministers believing and promoting nonsense herbal "treatments" and attacking ARVs.

http://www.irinnews.org/report/93411/africa-the-crazy-things...

"I am sure and I have evidence that someone who was [HIV] positive turned negative after prayers," she said. - Christine Ondoa, Uganda health minister
Mbeki stirred controversy when he questioned the causal link between HIV and AIDS; in 2000 he set up a Presidential AIDS Advisory Panel, largely comprising AIDS denialists, to discuss how South Africa should deal with the crisis.
Mbeki also evoked conspiracy theories by alleging that the US Central Intelligence Agency, working with large pharmaceutical companies, was part of a conspiracy to promote the view that HIV caused AIDS.
According to the authors of a 2008 Harvard study, more than 330,000 lives were lost as a result of the delays in implementing a feasible and timely ARV treatment programme in South Africa.
[Manto Tshabalala-Msimang, SA health minister 1999-2008] approach to HIV/AIDS drew widespread international condemnation, which came to a head following the 2006 International AIDS Conference in Toronto, when she insisted that garlic, lemon and beetroot be displayed in South Africa's exhibition booth.

Not having the brand name pills doesn't mean people campaign for those meds. It leaves a vacuum for ruthless, evil, people to exploit sufferers.

Mathias Rath (Vitamins cure AIDs, ARVs don't do anything except kill people) http://www.irinnews.org/report/83497/south-africa-final-chap...

The drug, known as Virol ZAPPER, was being sold in 37ml liquid doses, each costing about US$210; patients were advised to take 10 drops daily. It was being advertised on local radio and TV stations as a miracle cure for HIV. http://www.irinnews.org/report/94679/africa-snake-oil-salesm...

kamaal3• 13 years ago

Actually by and large Indian government has done a good job fighting diseases like Polio. They set up centers accessible to nearly every one, where you could have Polio drops administered to kids. Generally these are near places of worship, schools or community centers. The government also bought in celebrities to campaign for that.

I see the same for Tuberculosis, malnutrition, maternal health, child diarrhea and many other public health things.

But definitely more can be done.

Please note India also has massive corruption in private set ups. Pointless tests, surgeries,needless medication advices to inflate bills, treatments purpose fully stretched... etc etc. It all happens.

dheer01• 13 years ago

"Please note India also has massive corruption in private set ups. Pointless tests, surgeries,needless medication advices to inflate bills, treatments purpose fully stretched... etc etc. It all happens."

- It will always happen in any country - more so in poor countries like India. Even then its not so bad - you need to visit other countries to comment on a relative basis. This is way worse in a lot of other countries - including the US.

jdmitch• 13 years ago

Very sobering, and an inspiring stance against big pharma by India. I always had the impression (fuelled by big pharma propaganda?) that there was some debate around the effectiveness of generic ARVs, at least initially. Unfortunately, it sounds like there is much more that could have been done that wasn't until the Clinton Foundation's initiative.

masklinn• 13 years ago

The history of the disease [is] well documented.

Eh. That's debatable, the history from the discovery (1980 onwards) is well-documented, the history before that... there are a pair of books (Pepin's The Origins of AIDS is the best I've found so far and an excellent read) but even then lots of the events are only circumstantially determined (e.g. hemo-caribbean's role in Haiti) and for others we only know the result (AFAIK we still have little idea how Robert Rayford contracted AIDS in Missouri in 1965~1966).

gnufied• 13 years ago

Print version - http://www.frontline.in/social-issues/indian-generics-and-ai...

WARNING - it will prompt you to print the article, so don't forget to cancel it.

eYsYs• 13 years ago

If we talk about the broader perspective, so much credit should go to the Indian Supreme court and its patent office for taking bold stance, time and again, on this broken patent system, allowing generics to make affordable ones.

For example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novartis_v._Union_of_India_%26_... talks about how cancer drug were made affordable. Novartis (Switzerland) set the price of Gleevec at USD 2666 per patient per month (which is almost double of India's annual per-capita nominal GDP USD1414); Whereas, generic companies were selling their versions at USD 177 to 266 per patient per month. We can safely presume the situation to be much worse in Africa.

Based on this possibility, support is being replicated to Africa, notably for cancer, AIDS and TB.

r0h1n• 13 years ago

In many ways India, due to its population and the strength of its generic industry, is the key battlefield for global pharma in their war against cheaper generics. Which is why the Obama administration is trying to arm twist India into blocking generics:

https://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/press/release.cfm?id=7...

http://jonathanturley.org/2013/09/26/obama-to-india-block-pr...

India is also aggressively trying to reduce variation in drug prices within the country too.

"Consumers will be the biggest beneficiaries as prices of some brands may fall by up to 70 per cent. [...] Analysts estimate that the policy will cover two-thirds of the Rs. 60,000 crore domestic industry. [...] The new policy differs from the existing DPCO 1995 in that it is based on the simple average price (SAP) for all brands with a market share above 1 per cent in their segment. The new policy also uses a market-based pricing mechanism against the earlier proposed cost-plus method. [...] In the long-term, the policy proposes to reduce the bandwidth of prices of the same molecule and this will have an impact on manufacturers in the mid and lower segments, analysts feel."

http://www.thehindu.com/business/Industry/new-drug-price-reg...

sreejithr• 13 years ago

Interesting

tokenadult2• 13 years ago

I wish India were doing as well in controlling tuberculosis. Both a newspaper in the United States, which did much to break the story,[1] and a newspaper from India[2] are in agreement with official sources from both countries[3][4] that much more needs to be done to stop the spread of drug-resistant strains of tuberculosis in India, which could threaten the health of the whole world. (A century and a half ago, tuberculosis was perhaps the world's leading cause of death.)

[1] http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1000142405270230344420...

[2] http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2013-06-23/news...

[3] http://www.iom.edu/Reports/2012/Facing-the-Reality-of-Drug-R...

[4] http://www.tbcindia.nic.in/pdfs/RNTCP%20Response%20DR%20TB%2...

dharmach• 13 years ago

Not directly relevant. Not required to add "ifs" and "buts" to each story.

tokenadult2• 13 years ago

I wonder if policy in India on generic drugs has some relevance to treatment of tuberculosis. In any event, there is a grave threat to world health from multiple-drug-resistant tuberculosis, and I hope they are correspondingly urgent efforts to deal with the problem in India, the center of this dangerous new infectious disease.

pratyushag• 13 years ago

For people who care, I support New incentives - an organization that's actively trying to help constrain AIDS in Africa and that has managed to do it in a very cost effective and transparent way.

sliverstorm• 13 years ago

Here's what I don't get. After we liberalize drugs, abolish patents, and fill the world with generics- what do we do when private companies stop researching new drugs because the generics market will destroy ROI?

pkhagah• 13 years ago

The same thing we are doing now. Research in universities, NSF labs and government funded programs around the world. Which are the major contributors to research around the world.

Indian generics and AIDS

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