The NSA-DEA police state tango

http://www.salon.com/2013/08/10/the_nsa_dea_police_state_tango/

by rosser • 13 years ago

114 29 13 years ago

salon.com

FellowTraveler6• 13 years ago

But I thought NSA data was only used for counter-terrorism efforts?

Turns out, that's bullshit. It's used by DEA, it's used by IRS -- soon it will be used by Obamacare.

perlpimp• 13 years ago

"Yes, we can"

wwweston• 13 years ago

"Yes, we scan!"

deerpig• 13 years ago

Obamacare? Really? Why not the War on Christmas, taking away your second amendment rights, protect pedophiles or the secret cause of autism in our children? Don't we have enough real problems without dragging in partisan straw men? Who needs tin foil hats when we have the Tea Party?

CamperBob22• 13 years ago

Obamacare, like it or not, requires a large increase in the nation's ability to collect taxes and enforce same.

Who's doing the knee-jerking, again?

FellowTraveler6• 13 years ago

It would be the ultimate in naiveté to believe that NSA data, already used by IRS and DEA, will not end up being used by Obamacare, in addition to any other government agency where they deem it useful.

Don't be a fool.

In fact the IRS is what administrates Obamacare and it's already in the news that IRS was using NSA data.

Zigurd• 13 years ago

The private industry nature of ISPs and Web sites did nothing to protect us. So, yes, I expect our health care data is under surveillance. But we could pay cash, or have single payer, and it wouldn't make a damn bit of difference regarding privacy.

FellowTraveler6• 13 years ago

or have single payer

How could we "have single payer" without the threat of violence?

A doctor would normally be free to treat whoever he wants, and patients would be free to choose any doctor they want, and any insurance company they want. The only way to change that reality is through threats of violence.

For example, today a doctor cannot compete with his local hospital's monopoly without obtaining a "certificate of need" from the State, certifying that the local region "needs" an operating room. (Such certificates aren't actually granted of course, since they are used to protect monopolies.) If he opens one anyway, he faces fines, imprisonment, loss of license to practice, etc. (Threats and violence.)

So in fact there is already not any free market in medicine today--just a bunch of fascism and crony capitalism... Single payer just seems like even more centralization, more threats, more violence, when the problem today is already a complete lack of any free market.

linuxhansl3• 13 years ago

Please spare us the "Obamacare" paranoia.

I agree that once data is available it will be abused. But Obamacare one of the main problem? Dude, take off the tinfoil hat.

joshfraser• 13 years ago

While the dragnet collection continues, everything can and will be called into question.

FellowTraveler6• 13 years ago

Just a reminder that the IRS will be enforcing Obamacare, and it's already in the news that the IRS was secretly using NSA data.

It would be the height of naiveté to believe the information wouldn't end up being abused. It's already being abused. Also, maybe you aren't in the USA so FYI, the IRS is currently in a scandal for abuse of authority, especially related to "tinfoil hat" organizations. (Those crazies apparently being, people who do not trust the IRS to handle their health care.)

logn• 13 years ago

While I think Obamacare is an improvement and offers no additional risk to our privacy (it's long gone), healthcare is tightly coupled to all of this surveillance for terrorism/drugs/crime/health/thinking that isn't talked about enough. It's the next frontier of intel probably, especially as we put more and more electronics/drugs inside our bodies in the future.

Also, if you had to choose one place to tap communications, doctors' offices would be a likely step. Lawyers too. Internet and political office are already completed, so doctors, lawyers, schools, businesses are next, if not already covered entirely by our current surveillance. I'd assume this is textbook tyranny.

fsckin• 13 years ago

The tenuous connections made in the 'drugs fund terrorism' PSAs a decade ago make so much sense now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVQnbNspHsk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFLFihL6JNk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnTwn6hwSX8

linuxhansl3• 13 years ago

So, the DEA and other agencies create the incentives for the criminal drug milieu by creating artificial scarcity, i.e. high prices... which in turns leads to more criminal activity and violence and subsequently to more funding for these agencies.

Perfect.

harshreality• 13 years ago

Perfect.

They certainly think so. That leaves out the part where politicians won't shut down those agencies (or parts of agencies) because of the power base they represent.

As Rand observed through Dr. Ferris, "There's no way to rule innocent men... when there aren’t enough criminals, one makes them." They can make criminals by passing more laws or by detecting more people breaking already existing laws. Rand was referring only to the first type, and they do have some different effects, but they both serve to increase control.

First the courts allowed searches (except they're called officer safety frisks) based on "reasonable suspicion" (an absurdly low and vague hurdle created by Terry vs Ohio); now intelligence collected by agencies pursuant to foreign intelligence mandates is being used to improve detection and conviction rates for domestic crimes. And there's the beginning of mass surveillance of public spaces: cameras, radios, and modern technology enabling identification and location tracking of individuals, cars, cell phones...

It's an interesting political dynamic when everyone's fearful that they've broken some law and fearful that they've been detected but not yet arrested.

The politicians, most of them, want to rule, not serve. They want to accumulate power for themselves and their friends, at the expense of everyone else who is caught between increasing surveillance, stricter laws, and increased black market related criminal activity.

mtgx• 13 years ago

I couldn't believe Obama said on his conference that "there have been no reported abuses of the spying in the media", even though the fact that NSA was giving info to DEA, IRA (and probably others) was just in the news 2 days before, and his DoJ even started investigating them.

What's worse is that he actually got away with it, and those "journalist" jokers at the White House that were laughing at his jokes didn't even ask him about it.

The NSA-DEA police state tango

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