I quit my job

by guynamedloren • 13 years ago

289 189 13 years ago

If you're in a similar position and this resonates with you, do yourself a favor and just quit. Seriously. Stop waiting for things to get interesting. They won't. It's so easy to get stuck.

If you're good at what you do, you'll find a job you love immediately (if that's what you're looking for). As developers, we're fortunate to be in extremely high demand. Life is too short to be bored. Work on interesting things.

coherentpony4• 13 years ago

This doesn't make any sense to me. Why would you quit without another job lined up? You must have a ton of money already saved to cover the rent and feed the children. Or live with your parents. I couldn't just quit my job without having other work lined up.

cstejerean• 13 years ago

That's not a great position to be in. The company you work for can let you go at any moment whether or not you have something lined up, and if that's not something you can tolerate then you might want to start working on it (either by increasing your saving or by reducing the out of time it would take you to find another job).

guynamedloren16• 13 years ago

My parents live across the country, and I have no children.

I don't have a ton of money, but I have some. I have enough to survive for several months (or longer, if needed). LA is expensive, but I'm relatively frugal.

larrys4• 13 years ago

"Why would you quit without another job lined up? "

If you make the decision in your head that you are going to quit then it's quite possible your work and your attitude will decline and either co workers or management will have a negative view of you by the time you do quit. In a sense this is similar to why many performers go out while on top (thinking of Seinfeld as one example) instead of waiting for ratings decline. You don't want to just be going through the motions.

mcv5• 13 years ago

Why would you quit without another job lined up? You must have a ton of money already saved to cover the rent and feed the children.

If you've got children, you hopefully also have a spouse with his/her own income. I'm fortunate that my wife makes enough to pay the entire mortgage on just her income, so my money goes mostly to child care and various extras and luxuries. With a bit of savings we can make it for quite a while.

If you're maintaining a family on a single income, then yeah, that kind of step is rather irresponsible. But if you live on your own, you'll have your hands free for anything.

mbesto• 13 years ago

Judging from this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6042197 it sounds like you want to start your own company (and do more than code). Good luck.

fixxer8• 13 years ago

Sorry dude, I disagree. As an employee, an employer, and an investor, I see your action as a giant red flag.

amenod• 13 years ago

The only red flag is that he has waited around when he lost creativity, and even that is not red - at least he had the courage to quit.

It is a job of the employee to be creative (talking about design, of course). But it is the job of employer and investors to make an environment that challenges the employer. If they are unable to do that then any really creative employer will (or at least should) leave.

@OP: good luck!!! I wish you well on your path, wherever it takes you.

seiji• 13 years ago

What action is a giant red flag?

cantankerous2• 13 years ago

You see quitting a job as a red flag? I'm sure that's not actually what you meant. What do you mean?

guynamedloren16• 13 years ago

Not sure if you're being serious or not..

Especially since you profile reads:

I'm on sabbatical.

bguthrie2• 13 years ago

One of the great things about leaving a job you dislike to bootstrap a company making something you do like is not having too care too much about what other people think of your employment history.

jlees3• 13 years ago

It could be viewed as a red flag, but should you be interviewing this person, you'd likely not hear the story framed this way at all. The folks he leaves behind, should you pursue a reference, would probably also have a different version.

jaynos• 13 years ago

If you quit to work on your own stuff (and have a nest egg to fall back on), have at it.

If you plan on working for someone else, that employment gap would be a red flag.

larrys4• 13 years ago

I could argue this either way but I think in the end there is little creative way to explain why you left that either doesn't make you sound hard to please, or as if you knew you were going to get axed in the near future, or you were asked to resign.

(I'm trying real hard to find a spin but can't..)

Otoh, I sold a business and everyone criticized me that I had nothing else lined up to do but I realized that I wouldn't be able to line something up to do while involved day to day in legacy enterprise. (Of course that was not the same as I wasn't looking for employment.)

rwg• 13 years ago

"Just quit" doesn't always work out so well: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5778653

If I've learned anything about working, it's that you never quit without another job lined up. Employment seems to be a prerequisite for finding employment.

ctide• 13 years ago

Working at a single place for 10 years and having 0 connections to other companies is not going to put you in a good place to find a job. I imagine they would struggle to find a job regardless of whether or not they quit.

andywood• 13 years ago

I don't know about this. So far I've left jobs with nothing lined up 4 times. That's every time. So far, finding work hasn't taken more than a couple months of dedicated searching. Maybe I've gotten lucky, but it hasn't seemed that difficult. Uncertain and scary at times, yes. Actually difficult, no.

larrys4• 13 years ago

I think you need to append/change the page with the "I want to work for Airbnb stuff":

http://www.lorenburton.com/

If you want to keep it up you should overlay something that says "I used to want to work at airbnb" but leave the rest. (Doesn't matter if you still want to work there or not saying "used to" doesn't mean "I won't still").

Leaving this up makes you seem like the jilted guy with high school puppy love. Not very attractive to other "women" who want to possibly date you.

guynamedloren16• 13 years ago

Ha, yeah. Valid points.

mgkimsal2• 13 years ago

"If you're good at what you do, you'll find a job you love immediately "

Wow, really? Many (not all, though) of the people I know who are really good at some things also don't like the politics of working in companies/jobs at all, so finding a job they 'love' is near impossible. If you're leaving one job because of your own issues, you'll be taking those wherever you go.

dnautics2• 13 years ago

Loren, if you're interested in some projects, I've got a nonprofit science foundation. If I have money (or better yet, if you're interested in doing the fundraising), I'd like to develop some much-needed open-source scientific management software. It would be great to have a project lead for such a thing. In my wildest dreams, I'd like to see it spun off as a for-profit that delivers the software in an enterprise edition (with the main software tree maintained by the nonprofit).

I think there are a lot of unsolved ideas - like zero-friction data upload from instrumentation - possibly running on different platforms, wiki-like annotation and record keeping, setting up protocols with timers, and a uniform notification scheme that can be pushed out to a mobile device, etc....

boredprogrammer3• 13 years ago

I've been in a similar position for the last 3 years (of a 9 year stint at current company), and your story does resonate with me. I am bored at what I do all day long and have lost the passion for doing any sort of programming in my free time. I've considered leaving a few times, but I always take a look at what sort of openings are out there before I hand in my notice, and the answer is: "there are none".

There has been one programming position advertised in the city I live in in the last 3 years. That company has since closed - as I suspected it would (the entire team of 10 was Polish guys and gals and as it turns out they just wanted a presence in the country and farm out all the work back to Poland). Programmers in the US are totally spoiled right now, as there is a huge demand for them, but its not the same elsewhere. A number of other software businesses have also shut down or retreated back to their base.

Life may be too short to be bored, but its also too short to become penniless and homeless in a few months after quitting because you couldn't hack it anymore in a dead end job.

invalidOrTaken2• 13 years ago

With your downtime, I'd highly advise reading michaelochurch's Gervais/McLeod series. His articles are too long and he uses weird analogies, but he's onto something in terms of modern startup culture.

monkey_slap• 13 years ago

A link to the start of the series: http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2013/02/19/gervais-princ...

guynamedloren16• 13 years ago

Neat. Bookmarked!

jjbohn• 13 years ago

Good stuff. Been in this position a few times and I feel for you. Glad you're in a better place. One piece of advice, if you can take a little time off between gigs, I would do it. Keep spending time doing things you want to do before jumping in with another company. Also, be picky about your next job. Now that you have some experience under your belt, you will have some options.

fixxer8• 13 years ago

Well, I guess you can wait for the next Snowpocalypse...

jlarkin353• 13 years ago

Fair play, well done! Follow your dreams and the rest will look after itself.

derekp7• 13 years ago

Serious question -- have you taken vacations? Real vacations -- not the kind that turn into "work from home" days? And multiple days/weeks in a row? And for those stuck in a similar situation, does a 2-3 week vacation help at all?

I'm finding myself in a similar situation, about not working on my own side projects enough. The only time I've got anything done personally is when I took off 2 weeks around the holidays (and since it was holiday time, I didn't feel the need to keep "checking in" to the office, as there wasn't much going on). But normally I'll only take a day or two off at a time, which doesn't seem long enough.

guynamedloren16• 13 years ago

Serious question -- have you taken vacations? Real vacations -- not the kind that turn into "work from home" days?

No. Almost never. But I've thought about this extensively (before I quit as well as after), and I do regret not taking more real vacations.

But something made it just feel not okay. I probably have myself to blame more than anybody, but whenever I took vacations - even weeklong vacations (which was rare), I found myself checking in often. I was always near a computer. I felt obligated, and had strong loyalty to the company and my coworkers. Everybody worked extremely hard. Days off to take care of important things, or when I just needed a break - always became 'work from home days'.

c4n4rd• 13 years ago

For me, that does the trick. When I say vacation, I mean it. Go somewhere where you do not know anyone, stay away from computers, from books that are related to technology resembling work, from thinking about solutions to problems you have left behind. Go to a country where you do not speak the language.It is amazing how refreshing this is. Try it. If you cannot afford that - I have been in that situation - take a hobby at home you have never taken before (build a table, a chair, whatever you would like to do. It also did the job for me.

wheaties• 13 years ago

Sounds in many ways like your management, instead of empowering you with autonomy, purpose, and control over your projects took it away. Developers should call the shots on a number of things. This doesn't always mean running to use that cool new language you've been itching to use or to pick up that piece of technology you've been dying to try, it means being able to feel like you're the one in charge of the things that you're doing. If your team's voice is no longer heard and no longer takes part in the discussion of a project until after it is decided, you're only along for the ride. It's a tricky balancing plan, to both include new ideas and have the organization solidify around common methodologies, but one that needs to be taken. Otherwise, your "boredom" becomes a moral issue and you lose the people who crave stimulation.

nathas2• 13 years ago

I know this is _wrong_, but that's the point where I start writing side projects at work.

If I'm finishing all my rote work within regular day, at previous jobs I've started working on stupid side projects.

A physics engine in Lua, a maze generator in PyGame, and so on.

sadkingbilly2• 13 years ago

There is a fine tactic regarding pacing yourself as a developer/engineer - and this is part of it. I think this really helps stave off boredom, especially the kind that might lead someone to want to quit. Sometimes this isn't possible, such as when you're being micromanaged, in which case, it's clear the employer has no interest in you growing your skill, learning, or becoming more valuable.

mire• 13 years ago

Careful, if things get ugly the company might end up owning anything you put work into while they were paying you.

hga3• 13 years ago

In California there's recent law that makes it clear how you can avoid this (from memory, the obvious of using your own time and resources).

nathas2• 13 years ago

Oh, I'm aware. I always have very specific stipulations put into my employment contracts.

Regardless, I never write anything of worth for those side projects -- mostly experimental things, or using new languages/frameworks I had never tried.

cantankerous2• 13 years ago

Seems like a legit reason to leave. Personally I would've used the position I was currently in as leverage in finding new employment, though. It seems to me that you're in a better negotiating position if you don't need the job because you already have one. I'm sure you have your reasons, though. Did you think that staying on the job while looking elsewhere would've impacted your performance? Was it personal stuff maybe?

rexreed• 13 years ago

Wow - unlike other commenters, I think you deserve plaudits for not letting your work define you and going after what you are passionate about and believe. Will it make you financially wealthy? Maybe not (altho many articles seem to show chasing passion does have financial reward), but it will provide satisfaction. And that's hard to buy.

In fact, if you're up for some fun and continuous self-motivated challenge, I might have something for you that might be right up your alley. Not a coding thing or startup thing at all. Drop me a note if it interests you.

volume• 13 years ago

Sounds like the correct move in your case. Keep maximizing the value out of this decision.

sadkingbilly2• 13 years ago

Btw, what about health insurance? I find that to be the biggest deterrent. You're one random event away from bankruptcy.

hga3• 13 years ago

If he can pay for it he has up to 18 months of COBRA coverage (you stay in the plan, but have to pay the full cost to the company).

brucehart• 13 years ago

Be careful about this assumption if you are working at a small startup. I recently changed jobs and was not eligible for health insurance for the first month in my new job. I thought "Oh, that's fine. I'll just pay for a month of COBRA coverage." When I went to apply I was told that COBRA only applied to companies with at least 20 employees and that I should use my state's equivalent of COBRA instead. When I went to apply for that I was told that it applies to all companies, but it is not available to people who leave their job voluntarily.

I ended up having to get a short term individual insurance plan instead. It's a bit of a risk because if a major issue related to a pre-existing condition flared up, I would probably not be covered. It's my understanding that when the new health care laws take effect next year, it will help absolve much of the risk that comes from using an individual insurance plan.

btipling2• 13 years ago

Even for employees, startups are hard and take commitment. It's not for everyone, in fact it's probably not for most. People seem to have this idea of lavish Zynga style life styles. It's not. It's really really hard work. You still have to do as you're told. Everything is always going wrong. You still have to be responsible for your productivity. In fact you have to do a lot more. You cannot just hide.

As startups are not anywhere near a guaranteed job, downturns are really hard on morale, but you have to stick through it. Why do you have to? Because commitment. If you aren't ready for that kind of commitment, then early stage start ups are not for you probably.

As an employee you will more than likely not end up making as much as you would elsewhere in the long run. What do you get out of it then? Depends. I think it's worth it because I learn a lot and because my contributions really make a difference. Even if I don't have input in the broader direction (actually a good thing), I know my value.

guynamedloren16• 13 years ago

People seem to have this idea of lavish Zynga style life styles. It's not. It's really really hard work.

Yes, I absolutely agree with you. But in this particular case, I didn't leave because it was hard. I left because it was easy. Too easy. I wasn't challenged. The work I was doing was mundane and repetitive, and I didn't feel like what I was working on was important (or fulfilling). My productivity was great. I excelled. I made an effort to contribute in every way I could. But at the end of the day, I was just another dev.

btipling2• 13 years ago

Mundane is hard, and working at a startup can require mundane work. Lots of it. Automate whatever you can whenever you have time.

jbail2• 13 years ago

But at the end of the day, I was just another dev.

This. A thousand times.

At every company I've EVER worked for, I eventually had this exact same feeling. Even as the lead engineer, team lead, tech lead, or whatever other "top developer" role I've held, I always feel like this. And I always eventually quit too.

It's gotten worse in the past few years. I can barely make it one year before I feel like "just another dev", become completely de-motivated and start heading for the exits.

I've realized, at age 31, that I am a shitty employee and I always will be. I'm not supposed to work for other people. It doesn't really make me happy. It doesn't matter if its at a startup or a Big Co, I always feel like "just another dev", bored and ultimately like my potential is being cut short.

In the past year, this was sort of an epiphany for me. I have to follow the beat of my own drummer, be my own boss, make my own destiny. Will this bring me to self actualization? Will this be what I'm looking for? Or, will I feel empty once I get there? I have no clue, but I've got to find out.

Thanks for sharing your story, Loren. You're in good company. Good luck with figuring out what's important to you.

shearnie• 13 years ago

I had similar motivations for leaving a startup a few years ago. Not because it was easy, the work was quite challenging, but I think more because of the lack of involvement with creative input for the products I was building.

I was "just another dev".

I think this is an important lesson for any company building software, you'll lose top talent if you just treat them as some kind of fungible code churning cog.

paulhauggis• 13 years ago

"As startups are not anywhere near a guaranteed job, downturns are really hard on morale, but you have to stick through it. Why do you have to? Because commitment. If you aren't ready for that kind of commitment, then early stage start ups are not for you probably."

I feel like working for a startup in this way is for suckers. I've seen it so many times: You work really hard on a project and either the startup goes under or it gets bought out and you get a very small percentage (this almost never happens, however).

If I'm going to make that kind of commitment and take that kind of risk, I might as well start my own company. The risks are almost the same and the payout is much higher.

Yes, you may learn a lot from the experience, but does it have to be at the expense of your mental health and self-worth?

mcv5• 13 years ago

I've felt like this at every company I worked for, and not just at startups. At the start, I'm learning tons of new stuff, solving new problems, growing a lot of lots of different ways, and that gives me energy to put in way too much work. Eventually that slows down; I've seen those problems before, it's just another feature on some thing I've already worked on, and it starts to feel repetitive.

I just need something new every once in a while. I thrive on change, apparently. (My brother doesn't; he's been working at the same company forever.)

The problem is: I never get around to my own projects; when I started at a new job, all my energy goes into that. When it turns into an old job, that extra energy is gone. I never have the surplus energy for my own stuff.

fistofjohnwayne• 13 years ago

To many of you: are you really letting the fear of a gap in your CV stop you from chasing your happiness? Grow up and take what you want or someone is going to take it from you.

boredprogrammer3• 13 years ago

The potential gap in my mortgage payments is what keep me working in a job I hate.

shawabawa3• 13 years ago

Don't you have any savings?

If you can't afford mortgage repayments and savings, you are living above your means

I plan to always have enough savings for 1 year+ of unemployment

physcab• 13 years ago

It sounds like you got burnt out. When you "code until the sun comes up" you neglect basic human necessities like sleep and human contact. When you think only about the company and the product vision, you lose your sense of self. Your sense of self becomes your work.

I used to work at a startup where this was the case, but I've since changed. I love my work and my co-workers and I think they all work extremely hard, but I go home every night at 6:30. I cook for myself. I take salsa lessons. I read. And I work on my own projects.

Interesting work at companies comes with ebb and flows. Sometimes you work on things you don't like, sometimes you get bored, but if you keep your mind fresh and sane you'll come up with things to work on that are meaningful and interesting.

ivanist• 13 years ago

Can't emphasize this enough.

I used to eat at Subway, every single day and one day I stopped going there. I have never been able to go there again.

Passion does not turn you into a machine, you are still a human and your brain and body has limits.

ececconi2• 13 years ago

I did the same thing. Six months straight. I now haven't been in years.

vinceguidry• 13 years ago

You didn't really read the post. When she started, it was like that. But eventually it turned into "just-another-9-to-5" with uninteresting problems. That's why she quit.

guynamedloren16• 13 years ago

I'm a 'he' :)

incision• 13 years ago

I can relate to this post, but I pause at the contrast between this:

"I was given work to do and I did it well. The work wasn't interesting anymore, but it was easy." - "It was just so comfortable."

And this:

"I had plenty of ideas for apps and projects, but couldn't bring myself to build them. I was drained."

I understand feeling of being drained in a job with uninteresting, but stressful or time-consuming work, but not so much in a job that sounds extremely comfortable and flexible.

This combined with the "secretly hoped something horrible would happen" bit reads to me as a sort of mid-career crisis - tunnel vision seeking for some big catalyst that will make everything better, for a while at least.

I expect the author is going to be just fine in any case, but I don't see this as a problem that really necessitates an all or nothing approach. I feel like the tales of quitting, working out of a car, betting the house and whatnot is overly romanticized in general and among startup culture in particular.

enraged_camel• 13 years ago

>Eventually, those discussions stopped. Shots were called in private meetings and passed down.

This is terrible, and would also make me want to quit. Because if you start as part of the decision making process, and over time stop being invited to those meetings, that means you are no longer trusted or important enough to have any say in those decisions. That would be insulting, to say the least.

chiph• 13 years ago

Or they bring in outsiders to be "professional managers".

hkarthik• 13 years ago

This is the difference between having your own company and working for someone else's company.

john_b• 13 years ago

No, this is the difference between being employed by a company that values bottom-up input and being a corporate drone. If you're going to be treated like a drone you might as well get the stability and steady (as well as possibly bigger) paycheck that BigCo pays.

guynamedloren16• 13 years ago

I hate this cop out response. It's just not true. There are plenty of transparent companies that value the input of their employees and clue them in as to whats going on. There doesn't have to be a top-down decision making process that runs through the hierarchy. Especially when there are only 10 people at the company.

MartinCron5• 13 years ago

Something very similar happened to me at a startup a few years ago and it took me a long time to realize what had happened and why I felt so terrible about it.

Even though my title, salary, and perks were still the same, it was a de-facto demotion. Important parts of my compensation (involvement, agency, sense of ownership, diversity in work effort) were just inadvertently phased out as the company I helped grow was big enough to support product managers who could do just the most rewarding parts of my job but not actually code or anything.

I think (hope) there are things that one can do to guard against this from happening, and just being aware of this phenomenon is valuable.

rob_b2• 13 years ago

The corporate world is even more so plagued by this occurrence and explains why there are so many people in roles that they shouldn't be.

jlees3• 13 years ago

Important parts of my compensation (involvement, agency, sense of ownership, diversity in work effort) were just inadvertently phased out

That's a neat observation, and a pattern I've seen before. As the company (or team, within a larger company) grows, it's possible to lose some of the things you most value about your job -- without even realising it.

The company and management have the best intentions at heart for you, the team and the product -- but is this an inevitable side-effect of growth?

Also, the reason I became a product manager in the first place was because I found the specific stuff you mention invigorating, and coding became a distraction from it; I wouldn't diss all product managers with the same brush, it's just an unfortunate trap that if you're a good engineer then people probably don't think you want to be more product-focused, and don't want to lose your coding contributions.

FD3SA2• 13 years ago

It would be criminal negligence if I didn't mention Michael O'Church's seminal work on this issue [1]. There is surprising depth and complexity to the power dynamics in companies, both large and small. What you've discovered first hand is that, unfortunately, politics determine the fate of nations and companies alike.

1. http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2013/02/19/gervais-princ...

seivan• 13 years ago

"I helped grow was big enough to support product managers who could do just the most rewarding parts of my job but not actually code or anything"

That's the worst. Asshole idea people who can't code their bullshit design or implementation.

rob_b2• 13 years ago

Having personally encountered this, I can attest to the sentiment that nothing will cause you to lose your motivation quicker than being in a situation such as this. I'm amazed that so many people do not realize that this is demoralizing and will destroy the quality talent that you have.

ryandrake3• 13 years ago

This is the primary reason I moved from development to product management. At many companies, developers are seen as implementers only, and the ideas should come from a different group. Not saying it's right or wrong, it's just the mentality you'll find. Instead of fighting the mentality, I adjusted my career to take advantage of it. I still love to code and solve engineering problems, but I do it outside of work now. It would be wonderful to find a job where one can do both "definition" and "delivery" but those opportunities/companies seem to be rare.

amirrajan• 13 years ago

I'm in the same boat right now. I quit my job and am on a "learning" sabbatical right now myself. Some of the reasons you stated where mine too..

maybe some of the lessons I've learned so far may help: http://amirrajan.net/meta/2013/07/14/rebooting-life/

jlees3• 13 years ago

Heh. Me too. I suppose at any given time there are a certain number of people in the same boat so this shouldn't feel like so much of a coincidence.

Interesting post (and fellow Crossfitter, too!). Kudos on building up that much of a savings runway, though I'm finding that some level of time pressure is helpful in driving me forward faster to find my passions.

Personally, I found it hard to focus on other things outside of a demanding job. And I loved my job, so it wasn't hard to get sucked in. I had a forced leave due to an accident, and that really helped with evaluating priorities. http://jennielees.net/departing-the-mother-ship/

Jayschwa• 13 years ago

You sound like me a year ago. I quit a toxic job without anything else lined up (though I had a couple years of savings to live off). I worked on open-source stuff and little side projects for about six months, but I began floundering.

I wound up at https://www.hackerschool.com/ in February, and it was exactly what I needed. Most other students were in weird transitional phases of life as well. Check it out if you start struggling by yourself. I got a new job through them, so everything fell into place in the end.

Enjoy your sabbatical, and good luck!

jmount• 13 years ago

I don't think you are doing yourself a great service by playing the "it's not you, it's me" game with your ex company. This is nothing wrong with leaving after a short time and even writing about it. But significant accomplishments often take more than a year and have a lot of tedious and stressful intervals. Or to put it another way: opportunities that are certain to take less than a year and certain to not involve tedium and stress are rare.

verxile• 13 years ago

It's amazing how much I find myself in your story. I am too in same shoes, working at a startup and I'm so burned out that i have neglected all of my side projects due to lack of energy or modivation. I havent quit yet, but every 6 months i go through re-evaluation of where I am and where I want to go. For now until the end of year, I keep pushing hard at work hoping for the best.

KeepTalking• 13 years ago

A refreshing write up.

I have seen that happen to myself. The motivation, the desire to pick yourself up and get to work drops.

The largest factor IMO is the people you work with ie Your boss, your teammates etc. This can make it or break it. Everything else comes and goes in time slices. I do not expect work to be interesting all the time but with great co-workers I at least expect an interesting hallway conversation or the spark to a new idea.

For me it was the Sr/Jr Engineer thing that killed my desire. I found that somehow my age/years of work experience came in the way by a highly regimented old world overlord. I figured it was an unhealthy environment that cared 2 hoots about what was happening in the world outside. Most of them had come from a school that thought sticking faster CPU more memory and larger disks was innovation while it was just evolution. Packed my bags and hopefully will never miss a thing :)

Good luck !

bluedino• 13 years ago

From the first comment on the guys page:

> You haven't yet discovered that any business -- any real business that is-- is going to get to the point where you actually have to do work. Automate away everything you can, but there is still going to be work.
> If you're bored doing work, and only interested in the exciting stuff, you're never going to be happy in any job beyond 6 months or so

There's a lot of truth in this. When I did network administration I would job-hop. The first 6-12 months at a place were always full of stuff to do, and the things you did made each department fall in love with you. Rebuild a server that's been flaking out for 2 years? Fix some application the other guy could never get to work? Roll-out a new system for X? Upgrade to the latest firewalls/switches/whiskerdoo?

But then after that, it's like time stands still. There's nothing left to innovate, nothing exciting to do. Sure, there's stuff to do but who wants to actually do it? Maintenance is no fun.

Later, doing QA at a my first software job, we had a developer with that mindset. He'd flesh out an app and use whatever the latest libraries and tools were. The first demo would amaze everyone. He'd come in late and leave early. By the time we started beta testing the product it turned into a huge mess. I took on the not-so-glamorous job of fixing the whole thing. And instead of quitting (like I wished he would), he'd stick around and the the boss would give him a new project to work on. Starting the cycle all over again...

lotsofcows• 13 years ago

From the boss's point of view, you must seem like a great team!

untog• 13 years ago

This is why you don't work for a startup because it's a startup. Find something that you are passionate about. Work in that area. Be it freelance, at a startup or at a larger company.

Too often people stay at startups because it's the new cool, and anyone not "doing a startup" is apparently an idiot. It's very far from the truth, and my life was a lot happier once I realised that.

MartinCron5• 13 years ago

For a long time I thought I wanted to work at a startup, but it turns out that what I want just sort of correlates with being a startup. As long as I can be creative and build things of value for real people while improving my skills without being micro-managed, I'm happy.

Everything else is just aesthetic.

guynamedloren16• 13 years ago

I wanted to work at a startup because I saw it as the fastest path to personal growth. I'm sure it's possible to grow in big companies, but I did some analysis and decided that a smaller company was the best bet for me. Small team means big responsibility and many hats. And I have to say, I learned a ton while I was there. I don't regret it for a second.

c3vin• 13 years ago

I want an update after 14 days.

guynamedloren16• 13 years ago

Okay. Hold me to it. Seriously.

peterwwillis• 13 years ago

If having a great job that you love and pays well were easy, everyone would be doing it. Jobs suck, unless you're lucky and a big risk pays off. And it's not burnout. Most tech jobs are just fucking boring, and nobody can get excited about technology after being mind-fucked all day by it. My suggestion is to get a non-tech job.

excitom• 13 years ago

Must be nice not to need to work for a living. Remind me never to hire this quitter.

badman_ting• 13 years ago

I don't understand the mindset of "oh, I'm just going to cook and do things and write some code sometimes". I mean that in an envious way -- it sounds nice. But I just can't think that way for some reason. I didn't grow up with a lot of security so not having money come in is really stressful for me, even if I have savings.

auctiontheory3• 13 years ago

If you find yourself repeatedly bored, take the test at JOCRF.org. Best ~$700 I ever spent on my career.

guynamedloren16• 13 years ago

Thanks, I'll have to check it out.

nissimk• 13 years ago

That's interesting. What did you learn about yourself from the test and what changes did you make after that?

auctiontheory3• 13 years ago

I learned that my strengths were different - almost the mirror image - of what I had imagined them to be, and the direction I needed to take was very different than my education and career to date. Briefly: more creativity, more words, not so much numbers/analytics. It was a big surprise.

I have followed their advice, and while it's difficult to turn one's career on a dime, I'm happy with the results so far. What I'm doing "feels right," and I'm much better at it. I think about this every day.

Your aptitude profile will be different than mine. At this point, I've referred about a dozen friends to the center. Some have got value from it, others haven't. The ones who benefited the most were those who were open to making changes. (Some people will spend $700 and then throw away results that don't fit their self-image. That's a waste.)

I specifically recommend JOCRF to apparently intelligent people who have a hard time settling down in a career, or say they are bored. Perhaps they don't "know themselves" well enough - that's where the test helps.

bherms• 13 years ago

Only in this community would a bunch of strangers give a shit that another stranger got bored at his job and is trying something new...

Tehnix2• 13 years ago

Maybe because people in this community can highly relate to the subject? I know I can, for one...

Tehnix2• 13 years ago

I can relate all too well.

I once got hired in a startup my brother was in. I relocated to a new town (the capital), and got the chance to work in the development team with my brother and another guy I also knew very well. Things were awesome, and I couldn't be happier.

After awhile though, my motivation started declining quickly, and I found it hard to get up in the morning. By that time, I had almost stopped entirely doing projects when I got home. I just didn't feel like coding in my spare time anymore.

So, what went wrong? I loved my coworkers, it was exciting being in a startup, and I was somehow involved in the decision making, but, I just felt bored. Just, a complete lack of motivation. After awhile with this, I decided to quit, since I was going to start at university anyways. As the author of the post said, I also immediately felt relieved. I got my programming joy back.

What I've learned from this is, that I either

a) want a job were I do trivial stuff (like, working in a super market), and don't code since I prefer having a joy for coding as it is a thing I love dearly, rather than just getting payed to do it. or

b) be my own boss, be it freelance web developing, or, running my own startup. When it's my goals on the line, I get much more motivated.

I've had plenty of shitty jobs, and also had good jobs. This is what I've gathered from my (short) experience (I'm only 20 atm, but been working since I was young). This may also just be me, seeing as I get bored very quickly, and loose my motivation if I'm not feeling like it.

invalidOrTaken2• 13 years ago

Regarding your job dichotomy: yes! My two favorite jobs ever: working at Starbucks, and freelancing. I would rent my brain out, but it's not quite under my control.

rglover• 13 years ago

"For the next three or six months, I'm just going to work on interesting things."

Right on! Have fun :)

dools2• 13 years ago

Man, kids in the valley gettin' paid too much.

AshleyWysocki• 13 years ago

He's from LA actually.

dools2• 13 years ago

Surely Valley is a metonym that includes LA (at least in the context of ridiculous developer salaries).

andyidsinga• 13 years ago

yup. congrats

millerm• 13 years ago

I just quit mine too. I have 5 days left. No clue as to what's next. I'm not ready to talk about it.

shawnreilly• 13 years ago

Just curious, what would you do if Airbnb offered you a job at this point?

guynamedloren16• 13 years ago

I'd say no.

I don't dislike the company nor am I bitter... I am simply no longer interested.

Fwiw, when they did not hire me originally, they said they wanted to keep in touch - and they kept their word. They reached out about 6 months later, but I was already living the startup dream at that point.

thatinstant3• 13 years ago

When I read the post, I thought the same thing... It's almost as if I felt like I was reading my own blog (if I kept one). I have always strived to find meaningful work where I feel like I can have a positive impact on the world. About 3 years ago, I took a job at a startup where I was sold on the story that it would have a meaningful impact on the health/wellness of others. I took on new roles and responsibilities easily as I really wanted the idea of the company to succeed. However, as I learn more and more about the true intentions of the founders, I realize that it has nothing to do with impacting the health and well-being of millions, but all to do with making money.

guynamedloren16• 13 years ago

However, as I learn more and more about the true intentions of the founders, I realize that it has nothing to do with impacting the health and well-being of millions, but all to do with making money.

That's not a great situation to be in. Are you still working there?

thatinstant3• 13 years ago

Yes. I made a lot of sacrifices to my programming skills to take on other roles and responsibilities to move the company forward. Now, 3 years later, I'm finding it tough to leave. I wish I could just jump ship, but having bills to pay is a huge motivator to maintain the status quo.

lgieron2• 13 years ago

Isn't that the norm? I'd be interested in examples of profitable companies which put well-being of people over making money.

johnathanz• 13 years ago

Too bad the company got bureaucratic. But it seems to be the nature of things. Startups are born, they grow, they get big, and inevitably they get boring because 1) maintaining legacy code & doing incremental changes is never as fun as green-field development 2)having customers mean proving you can be reliable, and that comes with doing hard work - providing customer support, fixing bugs. Snazzy new features give way to doing what the market wants. I'm glad you made the leap to quit though, because it does sound like you were genuinely bored. While I agree a life guided by curiosity and experiments is the right pursuit, I personally don't think that luxury will always be available to us ALL the time. Sometimes, we just have to put up with doing boring tasks...

prtksxna• 13 years ago

It feels great to feel what you are feeling. I recently graduated out of a college that I didn't like too much and now I've moved cities and working on stuff that I really want to. I guess breaks like this are necessary to keep the mind fresh.

iblaine• 13 years ago

Wow, taking hipster to a whole new level. Working at a startup, having catered lunches & the latest mac is too much so he quit.

dougabug• 13 years ago

One of the most liberating things I ever did was quit my job and go travel for a couple years. I'd do it again, but I'd like to keep my home on the Peninsula.

Thiel should pay people to quit their jobs. The creative energy would be incredible.

bassta• 13 years ago

Something similar happened to me. I'm graduating in Law, but coding was always my passion - I did not want to go to university and study IT, because I always loose interest in something if I'm forced to study/do it. So I started coding five years ago as a for of relaxation. I loved it and learned all day and night. But had somehow to pay for my university, so first started freelancing. Two years ago I started part-time work for small webdesign agency. At first it was challenging, then more and more trivial tasks, almost none work... I become unproductive. Literally they were WEEKS I had nothing to do. So about two weeks ago, I quit. The first night I was thinking about how I'm going to pay for my textbooks, my rent, how I'm gonna live. Then I felt something I've almost forgotten - passion. I think passion and inspiration come in most critical moments, and especially when you got aim and you can decide yourself how to reach your goal. So an hour later, I started diving deep into NodeJS, Backbone, go over some tutorials I've been holding for months. Started writing new tutorial for my blog. Answered questions in GSAP forums. Helped people. Now I feel alive. As Max Payne said "I don't know about angels, but it's fear that gives man wings"

AdamN• 13 years ago

Take a sabbatical and come to Nairobi for a few months. Spend some time coding, some time meeting new people, and some time doing a walkabout: adam@kili.io

known• 13 years ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases

jrm2k6• 13 years ago

I really like this article, as I feel being somehow in the same position. Words chosen express totally my feelings. I'm happy to see that I am not the only one having this issue.

orestmayski• 13 years ago

Best of luck to you mate :)

e3pi• 13 years ago

Burn rate?

One other possible new exciting venue?

Sell the truck, get on down to the marinas, walk the docks, ask around, moorage in arrears gets good glass sailboats for the cost of getting them out of there. The Sacramento Delta, `Delta Time' might get you some free anchor out.

Invent new rPi, Ardino sol-powered black boxes for mariners?

You're a good writer too, L.

pknerd• 13 years ago

It is not uncommon that programmers get bored. The best way to overcome it to work on side/opensource projects and fill your GitHub account

I quit my job

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