Snowden be damned: Government renews US call record order

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/07/snowden-be-damned-government-renews-us-call-record-order/

by codesuela • 13 years ago

47 15 13 years ago

s_q_b4• 13 years ago

That press release is very odd. It negatively impacts the standing arguments in the pending litigation, and it's also just flat strange for the government to release information about classified surveillance programs.

It almost reads as a personal message to Snowden, which fits with the generally ham-fisted manner in which the affair thus far has been handled.

There was a legitimate chance to get him to come back and stand trial in Hawaii, but the government instead went into full bore attack mode.

Threatening powerful nations like China and Russia, grounding the plane of a sitting head of state, and having an NGO deliver a personal message that said essentially "we consider you a traitor, so expect to be treated as such..." The list goes on.

The most frustrating part is that these tactics had the exact opposite of the intended effect. When other countries ignored our threats, it made us look impotent. When Snowden was not on Morales's plane, it made us look inept. When we delivered a threat to Snowden, it underscored exactly how beyond our reach he really is.

Morality aside, this is just bad tradecraft.

jmduke• 13 years ago

I don't mean this as a criticism of you, as I know everyone has different opinions, but it frustrates me because criticizing the United States for being more transparent about their surveillance programs while also previously criticizing the US for lack of transparency seems unfairly hypocritical.

I think a lot of commenters have made the United States into a villain; it doesn't matter what they do now, it'll be construed as the wrong move.

s_q_b4• 13 years ago

The transparency argument rings hollow to me. Either you believe it's permissible for them to conduct this surveillance, or you don't. If you don't, then the solution is to stop the programs. If you do, then it helps that the programs remain secret.

How does it help anyone if the government tells me they're spying on me?

As an aside, look through my comment history. I doubt you'll feel that I'm making the US into a villain in this scenario.

perlpimp• 13 years ago

NSA is not inerently evil, these programs are - they are the cancer, because they have external funded interest. Private contractors that trade their directors to lead NSA and then get them back. Kind of incestious cycle don't you think? how is that someone who has hired your comany, suddenly runs your company ... maybe conflict of interest?

ferdo• 13 years ago

I think a lot of commenters have made the United States into a villain

The combined actions of many interests involved with the US government have made them into villains all by themselves. Transparency is meaningless unless it actually helps to stop the outrages committed by the government. As the government is still exercising powers that fewer citizens think they should have, the perception of villainy will only increase.

lambdasquirrel• 13 years ago

I wouldn't read this as criticizing the United States Gov't for being transparent (or not). The author may have been trying to be subtle, but I won't be. The press-release comes off ham-handed because it sounds like it came out of ineffectual petty vengeance. s_q_b is simply pointing out what others have said: that the U.S. has overplayed its hand at every turn, and found itself appearing more and more foolish.

sneak4• 13 years ago

It's consistent.

Gutting the founding principles of the country, both literally and figuratively, in response to the deaths of 3000 people is bad tradecraft, too.

It feels like the US is consciously making the most suboptimal decisions possible in response to terrorist attacks, terrorist threats, terrorists themselves, leaks uncovering the US's poor judgement, or those reporting on such leaks. But, of course, never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity, right?

Everything from throwing people in Gitmo indefinitely with no trial, to surveilling the whole country, to throwing the US internet industry under a bus (with the whole "we only surveil foreign entities" nonsense), threatening individual journalists with prosecution, torturing people prior to trial for speaking up about war crimes, irradiating and sexually assaulting air passengers, assassinating citizens... all the way down to plastic silverware in airport restaurants.

We've executed, by the textbook, exactly the most destructive, demoralizing, wasteful, and ineffective responses to these threats that can possibly be conceived under the model. We've done exactly what hurts us most, inflicted MANY orders of magnitude more damage on the US voluntarily than any decade of sustained successfully executed terror attacks ever could or would.

Far more disheartening than the general public's apathy or the transgressions of our leadership is the gradual and stunning realization that This Is The Best America Can Do.

For fuck's sake.

s_q_b4• 13 years ago

Historically we tend to react badly in the initial phases of response to a new issue, then self-correct. What troubles me is that those mechanisms don't seem to be working this time around.

But I don't believe this is the best America can do. We lost our cool temporarily. It's time to get back on track.

aclevernickname• 13 years ago

People tell me I'm crazy when I say this, but I contend that the primary purpose of government is to pretend to fail.

I wish someone would be able to prove me wrong, but recent events keep the thought strong in my mind.

Snowden be damned: Government renews US call record order

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