Twitter hands over data to ID racist users

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23290066

by titlex • 13 years ago

28 61 13 years ago

bbc.co.uk

dnskw2• 13 years ago

Were the tweets really so bad that they incited racial hatred?

smegel• 13 years ago

I think you will find "causing serious offence" is also a crime. At least it is in Australia. Which means even jokes and flippant remarks can result in criminal convictions if you didn't show enough sensitivity to some minority group.

Americans are extremely lucky that they live in a country with two principals that basically don't exist anywhere else 1) that there should be limits on the power of the state to interfere in private affairs and 2) freedom of thought/expression.

The fact that the NSA scandal has become...well such a scandal is that those principals existed to be violated in the first place.

coldtea6• 13 years ago

I think you will find "causing serious offence" is also a crime. At least it is in Australia. Which means even jokes and flippant remarks can result in criminal convictions if you didn't show enough sensitivity to some minority group.

Yes, after fucking over the native population for centuries, hunting them like animals, and closing them in concentration fuck-camps, suddenly the Australian government is all-too sensitive to the effects of ...hate speech.

dnskw2• 13 years ago

I am an American. I knew they had ridiculous laws like this in the UK. I recall hearing about some lady who said something racist on a subway and got arrested. Pretty ridiculous in my opinion.

The fact that the NSA scandal has become...well such a scandal is that those principals existed to be violated in the first place.

It still would have been pretty big news. The director of national intelligence lied to congress. People likely would have just brushed that under the table (like they are doing now) though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_R._Clapper#False_testimo...

codezero2• 13 years ago

It's my understanding that the content provider is only responsible for laws in areas where their data is hosted. Does Twitter have a data center in France? If not, how did this end up in French court?

DannyBee• 13 years ago

Your understanding is incorrect. You just generally won't get your datacenter raided except for violating the laws of the country where you host data.

Most nations (US included) try to claim jurisdiction over anything that affects people in their nation.

In practice, your choices end up being: 1. Comply

or some combination of: 2a. Have any local offices (not datacenter) raided and any country-level execs possibly arrested 2b. Having any remote execs arrested if they ever end up in that country.

codezero2• 13 years ago

But if you have no offices then you are OK?

Thanks, by the way for clarifying.

nawitus• 13 years ago

Any country can sue any person or any company around the world if they want to. The question is if such sentences can be enforced.

eeky2• 13 years ago

OK so let me get this straight: Many French tweeted jokes about "#UnBonJuif" (translation: a good jew), then an organization called UEJF (Union of French Jewish Students) goes on a legal attack and manages to get Twitter to cough up the info on the "perpetrators" and now those users are facing jail time?

Two conclusions I can make here: France, despite being a proponent of "liberte", does not have freedom of speech. Secondly, don't insult Jews, even on the internet.

foobarbazqux7• 13 years ago

While over here if you make a terrorism joke and then immediately say that you were joking, you also face jail time.

cenhyperion• 13 years ago

With unreasonable bails, and a "speedy trial" means within a year or so.

TazeTSchnitzel2• 13 years ago

No, in Europe we have the concept of "freedom of speech has limits". Basically, you are free to speak, but you are not free to make hate speech.

venomsnake• 13 years ago

Definition of hate speech - anything that can make anyone vaguely uncomfortable or the government don't like.

It will be interesting to compare east and west Germans on their attitudes towards free speech since the last had to "enjoy" the rule of communist party.

(disclaimer - my relatives were prosecuted in the 40s-50s from the newly empowered communist party in Bulgaria)

When a nation lives trough that you become to respect the almost absolute freedom US enjoys.

eeky2• 13 years ago

freedom of speech has limits

Well it's not really freedom of speech then, is it? I understand physical dangers like yelling fire in a theater, but this is limiting what can actually be expressed despite the context. "Hateful language" is defined by the victim's feelings, and someone expressing their speech has no control over that. Perhaps someone innocuously posts a picture of Muhammed unknowing that it just offended millions of Muslims who want him punished for his "hateful language". So you can't draw the line when people's feelings are involved.

I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it. EDIT: -Evelyn_Beatrice_Hall

coldtea6• 13 years ago

So, you're not free to speak.

Because somebody else gets to decide what's "hate speech".

Speaking against the aristocrats, back in the day, would also be regarded as "hate speech". Or speaking against class privilege, now.

And of course, anybody talking against mass immigration (which, as a social phenomenon has a lot of downsides too), will easily be classified as "hate speaker" too.

foobarbazqux7• 13 years ago

Here's a compilation of the tweets in French:

http://www.lemonde.fr/technologies/article/2012/10/14/unbonj...

  - <picture of a jew in a concentration camp bed> #UnBonJuif
  - A good jew is hard to cook.
  - A good jew is a dead jew.
  - <picture of ashes pouring out of a hand> #UnBonJuif
  - A good jew is cooked well-done.

Stuff like that. I'm at a bit of a loss for words; I feel a deep sadness about this. These are the French hate speech laws:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_laws_in_France

The courts don't appear keen to convict based on the case history, and I'm guessing these guys will be acquitted.

TazeTSchnitzel2• 13 years ago

Well, that's pretty disgusting.

arethuza• 13 years ago

Disgusting was the right word for me - I literally felt ill reading those statements. But should saying things like that be a criminal offense? Personally I would say no.

However, I can also understand the extreme sensitivity in various European countries in this area - especially when there are still people alive who survived the camps.

coldtea6• 13 years ago

Tons of other stuff is digusting too.

That shouldn't make excuses and laws to ban free speech.

maqr2• 13 years ago

Which part is doing it for you? That Twitter would hand over your identifying information because they don't like the contents of your tweets? The idea that governments can prohibit the written expression of thoughts and ideas? Or was it the distasteful tweets of some bigots (or perhaps more likely, just unfunny and immature people) about the jews?

smokeyj• 13 years ago

What more could one want than a government who suppresses freedom of speech via an over reaching police force? Wait a second..

cristianpascu3• 13 years ago

I few days ago I was accused here on HN of being homophobic, you know, like in hating homosexuals, because I expressed my opinion that a child needs a mother and a father.

In other news, here's an interesting discussion on humor: http://philosophybites.com/2011/04/no%C3%ABl-carroll-on-humo...

seivan• 13 years ago

Your opinion sure is.

driverdan• 13 years ago

Does Twitter have a business presence in France? If not, why did they bother to comply?

Twitter hands over data to ID racist users

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