NASA Rejection Letter to Woman in 1962 Was Blunt

http://shine.yahoo.com/healthy-living/nasa-rejection-letter-to-woman-in-1962-was-blunt--no-girls-allowed-181854889.html

by daegloe • 13 years ago

48 24 13 years ago

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hedonist• 13 years ago

To be fair to the 1962 NASA, they did say "women", not "girls." It's still blatant sexism, but there's need to hyperbolize.

Unless of course all you care about is generating linkbait.

eksith3• 13 years ago

And barely over a year later, Valentina Tereshkova kicks NASA in the teeth. Wonder how Mr. Lloyd felt when that happened.

Original Mercury astronaut Deke Slayton wrote in 1970 to future NASA astronaut Marsha Ivins, ‘The exact time when we would seriously consider women is indefinite, but I am sure it is inevitable.’”

NASA was most definitely a boys club back in the day. I mean, you can see the old footage of the guys dealing with the Apollo 13 mess ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxOKVHhFVJU whoever chose the music for that should have been fired ) you can see just how much testosterone was in the air... along with the cigarette smoke.

It's a strange dichotomy that the "Free world" was less free to women at the time than a Communist country.

ars3• 13 years ago

Wonder how Mr. Lloyd felt when that happened.

Why do you assume this was his policy? There weren't a whole lot of women in engineering at that time. It took a while after WW2 for women to go into science.

Do you have a specific timestamp in mind for the video? Or just in general looking at the launch crew?

eksith3• 13 years ago

"Houston, We've got a problem" is form 1972 : http://archive.org/details/HoustonWeveGotAProblem

I don't claim Mr. Lloyed initiated the policy, but by the matter-of-fact tone of the letter itself, I can infer he agreed that NASA certainly had no use for women astronauts at the time, despite their presence in the sciences and engineering (I believe Playtex/ILC Dover were hired to do the Apollo spacesuits and there were a fair number of women involved).

dvt2• 13 years ago

I think you are confused. Valentina Tereshkova was selected by the USSR not for any noble reason, but for the equally sexist-reasons "Miss Kelly" was denied -- because she was a woman.

If you think the USSR was less sexist than the USA in the 50s and 60s, you are vastly mistaken.

eksith3• 13 years ago

How about we ask a former communist?

http://lunardefensecorps.blogspot.com/2013/03/the-ussr-women...

zerr• 13 years ago

At least it was not a resume black hole. It even came with a real signature...

benatkin• 13 years ago

And they addressed the question. Unlike the letter to a 7-year old boy at the bottom of the article:

“I heard that you are sending two people into Mars and I would like to come, but I’m seven so I can’t,” 7-year-old Dexter Walters first wrote to NASA. “I would like to come in the future. What do I need to do to become an astronaut?”
The response, from the agency’s office of communications, told Walters, “NASA wants you to know that your thoughts and ideas to further space exploration are important, and we hope that you will continue to learn all you can about NASA's space programs, missions, and accomplishments.”

They didn't tell him what he needs to do at all, just that they hope he continues to learn about it. Sad.

ryguytilidie• 13 years ago

the "nor do we plan to have one" seemed unnecessary and mean.

ars3• 13 years ago

Quite the opposite. It's better to get a straight answer than to be left hanging on a maybe.

You ever been in an airport where they have a delay, and every hour they tell you it will be another hour?

Can't they just say 6 hours from the start?

rayiner• 13 years ago

The NASA rejection is somewhat unsurprising, because at that point in the space program astronauts were drawn from the military. Of Apollo 11's three crew, all three were in the military, and Armstrong and Aldrin both saw combat in Korea. It wasn't until 1993 that the Air Force allowed women to fly fighters on combat missions.

It's actually quite amazing to me how far women have come since the 1960's. They went from essentially zero representation in the business world to occupying substantial positions of power in just a few generations.

voidlogic• 13 years ago

"just a few generations"

Side question, wouldn't this be in less than a generation? After all most of those born in 1960 are very much alive and kicking.

chebucto• 13 years ago

Funny story, my grandfather was an engineering grad who joined the RCAF during WW2. He survived the war, and soon afterwards - I presume during the Gemini recruitment drive - heard that NASA was looking for people with, basically, his CV - technical/engineering background with piloting skills.

So, he applied, but was rejected. The reason? He was an alien, and NASA could not hire aliens. Seriously.

trothamel• 13 years ago

There was a good article by James Oberg in The Space Review about this, recently:

http://www.thespacereview.com/article/2310/1

The response to the original letter seems very blunt, but the original letter was written on the day of John Glenn's flight - back then, the requirement to be an astronaut was to be a test pilot.

GravityWell• 13 years ago

Frankly I think the letter is worded fine, and makes strong effort to be polite. If one is suggesting the exclusion of women astronauts is the issue, then that is a different thing entirely.

beloch• 13 years ago

What the early NASA program did in the 50's and 60's was only made possible by accepting risks that would curdle the blood of today's risk-averse NASA administration. The U.S. has a long history of very chivalrously protecting its women-folk from such "front-line" service. It wasn't until 1988 that the first female pilot was cleared for combat in the USAF, let alone test-pilot duty! The U.S. army, unlike many of its allies, still does not permit women in front line combat, although they have announced their intention to change this.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/01/24/us-usa-military-wo...

Reflecting the danger of the job, the first few classes of astronauts were required, by president Eisenhower's directive, to be military test pilots. These were men whose profession necessarily required them to accept a large degree of risk. Had one of these early missions resulted in fatalities the government would have been able to draw on past experience explaining the death of test pilots to the public. This requirement would not change until 1965 when scientists holding PhD's would be permitted into the program. This explains why NASA was not considering women in 1962. None existed that met the President's requirements. If you want to call somebody sexist for rejecting Miss Kelly, look no further than the oval office!

Valentina Tereshkova, for comparison, was not a military test pilot, or even a pilot at all. She was experienced with parachuting, but only in an amateur capacity. She did not compete with men and become an astronaut purely based on merit. The USSR's space program decided specifically to send a woman into orbit as a political statement and to see how female physiology stood up to space travel. Several women were considered for this honor and Tereshkova was chosen as much for her proletariat background as her parachuting experience. The first woman in space was a symbol, nothing more.

The second woman in space, and the first to perform a space walk, would not come along for another 19 years. Svetlana Yevgenyevna Savitskaya was a test pilot and a real cosmonaut, not just a symbol. She deserves the credit Tereshkova usually gets. Sally Ride would become the U.S.'s first female astronaut a year after Savitskaya's first mission, but this was only made possible by the perception of relative safety offered by the shuttle program and NASA's creation of the mission specialist class of astronauts. Had the challenger disaster occurred prior to Ride's first mission, it's very possible the U.S. might still have yet to send a female astronaut into space.

qwerta• 13 years ago

Sex discrimination is serious issue, but there are also other forms of discrimination nobody cares about.

European Space Agency does not take job applications from people over 55. Not even for desk based jobs such as administrator or software developer. And this is public agency which supports equal oportunities :-)

http://www.esa.int/hr/PDF/ESA-VN-ESTEC-2012-091,REV.1.pdf

apsec112• 13 years ago

They don't hire new people over 55, because they're a government agency built around the assumption that everyone will be there for forty years, and it's a bad idea to have 95-year-old employees. 55 is also the usual age of retirement in the public sector.

For existing workers, this and other government agencies are massively biased in favor of the old. Everything important - salary, benefits, job title, responsibility, prestige, etc. - is given out almost entirely by seniority. At least in the US, there's basically no one who matters in government under age 45.

temp453463343• 13 years ago

Oh this is symptomatic of a larger problem of age discrimination in Europe. People have zero problem firing old people explicitly for their age. Many academic institutions have hard set requirements for retirement at 65. It's very very hard to work in to your 80s in Europe like it is in the US. (My experience more of less limited to academia)

The idea (originating from France as far as I can tell) is that if you fire all the old folks you will make more room for a younger generation. It's a theory that has been disprove again and again. It's also why they try to cut the work week. If everyone can only work 30 hours then there will be more jobs! (Except it never ends up happening)

jrockway• 13 years ago

If you're over 55, can't you just start a company and be a contractor, charging them 10x what you would make as an employee? :)

gojomo• 13 years ago

Different era is different. Plenty written today, perfectly in tune with current right-thinking cutting-edge mores, will appear comically quaint and unjust 50 years from now.

smegel• 13 years ago

Wouldn't a woman get a similar response from the Army if applying to join a front-line combat unit? (assuming such a policy of exclusion still exists).

NASA Rejection Letter to Woman in 1962 Was Blunt

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