It is hopeless, but I still can't accept it

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5968773

by rolledover • 13 years ago

13 40 13 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

I went to school for 4 years and worked for 7.5 all to save up about 1.5 million. I probably would have about 2.5 million if I didn't try to live like a badass for a while. I've always thought I would be rich and have over 100 million dollars. I see now that it is going to be impossible. I saw pg's post, and it made me suicidal. All the brightest minds in the world (of which I am not) with all the help in the world (which I don't have) who actually went to school for this stuff (which I did not), are STILL not able to make things work, except for a select few. 8 companies out of 547? made the majority of the money. I feel hopeless, I don't know why I can't just accept that I'm going to be one of the lower class the rest of my life, but I guess that day will come soon enough. I wish it wasn't true, but I know that it is. I am honestly thinking about just giving my money to charity and moving to some foreign country to volunteer the rest of my life. I feel like I am worthless, and I always will be.

praguebakerr• 13 years ago

So why you don't simply enjoy your life as it is ? If you will push hard towards your financial plans and dreams maybe you will find in 20 years you are just old man with a lot of money or you will be broken (e.g. next financial crisis, war, deadly illness etc...).

rolledover14• 13 years ago

I think I would need to see a psychologist in order for that to happen. I'm very angry and sad at myself, I feel like I have contributed nothing to the world, and I never will.

CyberFonic• 13 years ago

You definitely should see a good therapist.

For one thing, having $1.5m is a great accomplishment. I think you are suffering from a first world problem and comparing yourself with successful entrepreneurs.

Give some of your money to a worthwhile cause and work there as a volunteer one day a week for a year. Then you will have made a worthwhile contribution.

Open your eyes and look at the problems that needs solving. Choose one and go for it!

pearjuice• 13 years ago

What if I would tell you money is not the purpose of life?

rolledover14• 13 years ago

I feel like right now I don't have a purpose, or really care to have one. I guess I'm pretty angry at myself.

mik3y• 13 years ago

I would suggest you talk to someone about this in person. I'm guessing you have many friends and family that are proud of and would dream to have your level accomplishments.

I've got a bit of savings but didn't co-found Instagram either. I also have many smart, extremely talented friends who, in their 30s, are finally debt free. Or not even. Suddenly things don't seem bad at all. You have a freedom and flexibility that is decades away (at best) for many people, not just starving third world strangers.

Perspective helps, and yours might be dominated by dreams of getting richer rather than something more productive. The reality might be that even if you reach some certain number that you think would satisfy you now, you might just find something else to be dissatisfied with. Still not as rich as the next guy.

I understand what you're feeling. A few things help keep me in check:

One, mentally treat "want" as a toxic impulse (like, say, overindulging in fast food). It's perfectly fine to have goals and drive, but don't let them get so out of hand as to consume you.

Two, imagine luminaries in your field and compare their accomplishments to wealth. I'm sure Vint Cerf and Linus Torvalds live comfortably -- but are not billionaires. But look how many have ridden off of their accomplishments. Wealth != societal worth.

Three, read the (apocryphal?) quote about Heller and "enough".

Finally, do talk to someone in person. I didn't know "imposter syndrome" was a thing until someone told me, for example. Talking can help in unexpected ways.

rolledover14• 13 years ago

I am ashamed to admit that the main reason I want this much money is because I have always been treated like I am not good enough by my parents. He is somewhat wealthy, and I feel very unaccomplished and useless compared to him. I guess I haven't given much thought to it, but the fantasy of having 100's of millions, having my own jet, and being able to prove to them and their friends that they were wrong about me, seems to be the central reason for wanting to have this amount of money. I hate it that I can't do anything for them that they can't already do for themselves. I hate it that they treat me like less of a person because I have not been successful. I get a poisonous taste in my mouth just thinking about it. It makes me really angry, but mostly at myself for not figuring something out by now.

tls• 13 years ago

relevant: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5390138

rolledover14• 13 years ago

Thanks for this, it's helped me gain some perspective about my situation.

jacques_chester3• 13 years ago

You sound like you have depression.

Depression is treatable. See a doctor as soon as possible.

Pick up the phone.

Right now.

Pick up the phone and call a doctor. Make an appointment. For today if possible.

Right now.

Once you've done that, call a help line. Immediately.

Depression is treatable. You are not alone. It can and does get better. There is no need to suffer.

rolledover14• 13 years ago

I've been depressed in some form or fashion since I was in high school. I'm not sure if it's because my life has been a massive failure, or because I actually am chemically lacking. I've seen horror stories of people who have taken anti-depressive drugs, and half of my family is on them. I think some cognitive therapy would be useful, but I really hope I don't need medicine. I don't even take advil if I can help it. I would honestly be terrified of telling any doctor something like that. I live in TX, and have very little trust for most of the doctors I have seen in my life. They all have agendas.

jacques_chester3• 13 years ago

I've been depressed on and off for my entire life. Treatment was simple and a revelation. For the first time in my life I could simply be, without having to fight to be.

No more treading water ... in treacle.

Really, see a doctor. It's the best and most important decision you'll ever make.

hello_newman2• 13 years ago

"I went to school for 4 years and worked for 7.5 all to save up about 1.5 million"

Ok, good start. Savings are very important to have. But, don't forget, 1.5 million is A LOT of money. Even if you were saving 100k a year, you would have to do that for 15 years! And remember, that's just saving money.

"I probably would have about 2.5 million if I didn't try to live like a badass for a while."

By badass, I am thinking you mean living excessively? That is not only harmful on your pocketbook, but also on your mental health. It is a very superficial lifestyle. I am assuming you may mean alcohol, drugs(?), women, stupid parties etc. It's good you realized it is unwise to live like that.

"I've always thought I would be rich and have over 100 million dollars. I see now that it is going to be impossible. I saw pg's post, and it made me suicidal"

Well, your life is not over. Nothing in this world is impossible. Just because you read PG's post, doesn't mean anything. As cheesy as it sounds, when the going gets tough, the tough get going. If you really do want that much money, wealth, and power, it does not come easy. You have to work for it.

"All the brightest minds in the world (of which I am not) with all the help in the world (which I don't have) who actually went to school for this stuff (which I did not), are STILL not able to make things work, except for a select few. 8 companies out of 547?"

The best example I have of this, happens to be this article; http://techcrunch.com/2013/04/06/how-i-started-zerocater/ it was on the front page a while back

And as for the last part of your post; don't give up. Nothing in this world worth having is easy. Don't think that successful people were handed their successes on silver platters while they were puffing their cigars wrapped in hundred dollar bills. Sure, there are exceptions, but pretty much everyone else who is successful and has "fuck you money" had to work their ass off to get it.

It is your job, as an entrepreneur, to make it happen. Successful people to have to fail way more than normal people to get to where they want to go. I am not trying to kick you while you are down but the way I see it, is you have two choices; realize that you don't have what it takes to accomplish your goals and dreams, give up, and do something else. Or, see that although your goals are lofty, they are NOT impossible. It will take time, effort, blood, sweat, tears, a lot of sleepless nights, and a little bit of luck to get there. But that's just the thing; you just might end up accomplishing those goals.

Hang in there. Go for a walk. Call some friends and catch a movie or grab a beer. Stay humble, stay hungry, and get back to work. You can do it.

rolledover14• 13 years ago

Thank you. I think I do need pain. I want pain, I am tired of sitting here idle. I honestly don't mind dying, I have figured that much out. Hopefully that will make me dangerous at some point. I honestly don't care much to live past 60, so maybe that is an advantage.

hello_newman2• 13 years ago

Pain is good to have in entrepreneurship. Entrepreneurship is kind of like being a "starving artist"; you have to get off on suffering and just know in your gut that everything will work out.

I, personally, wouldn't go as far as "dying", but if it works for you to channel your energy like that than more power to you. And remember, you will accomplish your goals, so once you are rich your golden years (60+) become the best because your rich as fuck and you can do whatever you want.

If you ever need someone to talk to, my email is on my profile. Keep your head up. Stay strong.

cdvonstinkpot2• 13 years ago

You sound like someone who needs to count your blessings. Ever heard of a gratitude list? Put things on there like that you've still got your sight & all your fingers. Imagine how difficult things would be if you didn't.

I know it sounds corny, but actually seeing on paper all the things you've got going for you can help when things are out of perspective, because that's all it is your problem is is perspective.

What's so bad about being the lower class all your life? In America we've got it made! I'm assuming you're in the US, maybe you're not, but even if you're not I'm assuming you're in a developed nation if you're able to save $1M+ somehow.

I lost my whole retirement ($160k) on a failed startup, and I've got nothing to show for it but a lesson learned, now I'm on the task of regaining my retirement & seeing to it that I can retire properly on time. Be glad you've got that task checked off. Your retirement won't be in poverty. There's one thing for your gratitude list. A big thing. To me at least.

Perspective is your only problem. Volunteer at a homeless shelter or a soup kitchen for a month maybe, see what some people are living like. When I was homeless it sucked, now when I get out of perspective I can remember it & just be glad to have my apartment- then I feel better.

rolledover14• 13 years ago

Yes, it's definitely a case of Maslow's hierarchy. I am thankful and grateful, and actually think of it every day, and let other people know that I love them and are grateful for them. But I have this great fear that I will never be successful. I will never figure it out. I will never make it happen. And that's really all I want right now. I just want to make something happen. It would be great to have 100's of millions, but honestly, if I could just support myself by something I created myself (not some job), I think I would cry tears of joy. I just feel like it's impossible right now. I guess I should go try to do the impossible so if I fail, at least it was something really hard. That will take some of the pressure off.

cdvonstinkpot2• 13 years ago

Don't react out of emotion & set yourself up for failure now though.

mjmcb3• 13 years ago

You seem to have imbibed a particular economic myth, and are now choking on its very prominent bones. Very few of us are destined to have even $1 million of disposable income in our hands at any one time. Making big bucks is primarily a combination of luck and the willingness to embrace risk.

Richard Branson is a rare example of a self-made billionaire; he started in the 1970s and leveraged his small investments into larger ones. But make no mistake, he took substantial risks; he could easily have lost the lot, like so many others did. The only reason we have heard of him is because he was the 1 in 1000 who made it.

The failure rate for small businesses, online or not, is 99%. Only 1 in 100 business survive beyond five years, and many do not even make it beyond the first. The key message from those who did make it is to ask around, workshop your ideas, to share and not hide your ideas; let others help you to success. The Australian entrepreneur Dick Smith [not a billionaire, but certainly a man with 'fuck you' money] asked lots of successful business people for tips, and found [to his surprise] that they were always willing to offer advice and to share their tips for success.

Very few people know anything about starting a business, let alone something entrepreneurial. As others here have said, reach out to the people around you. Find people with that experience, ask them what they learned, including the mistakes. Given the right approach, they will love to bore the pants off you with their war stories.

bsaul• 13 years ago

You forget that if 8 companies out of 547 make it, eventhough those are supposed to be bright mind, means intelligence and skills are probably not the only factors.

You may reach the conclusion that intuition and luck are also a big part of the game. So there's nothing else to do but see for yourself and try.

jeeb• 13 years ago

And here I was thinking that the 10k I managed to save up in 3 years at my current job was a lot. But then again, most of my friends are either in school or unemployed, so from a different perspective, it actually is quite a lot.

osivertsson3• 13 years ago

I have worked and studied the same time as you have, and have nowhere near that amount of money. And I'm fine with it.

I've had co-workers very focused on money, with their aim in life being to get rich. Rich to allow them to get even richer, and then filthy rich, and then, ...then the magic happens and life will be a bliss. They just have to get more money first.

Compared to the rest of our world you have a lot of money. Don't let the pursuit for more money stop you from living your life fully. You are young and there is so much you can spend your time on.

With your money you have the opportunity to travel and see, hear, smell, feel, and taste this world directly with your own senses! A luxury to expand your intellect not given to many of this world. Take your time in places and don't just visit the biggest cities, stay in hostels here and there to get away from the sterile, always-the-same, hotel experience. Yes, some experiences will probably be awful but at least you will have a story to tell!

That said, talk to someone first to help you get started. There are good therapists available. Counseling made a big difference for some friends of mine when they were able to break a bad, self-reinforcing pattern of thinking, and get a new more healthy perspective.

rolledover14• 13 years ago

Where can I find good therapists? I really don't know who I can trust. After a couple bad run in's, I really don't know who to talk to. If you told me you knew a good guy in Cali, I would leave tomorrow. I'm honestly that desperate to get this figured out and done with so I can focus on building things that I want.

Also, I think I will do some traveling while staying in hostels. Thank you.

osivertsson3• 13 years ago

Well, I'm in Sweden and my friends, being swedish citizens, have gotten CBT through the swedish healthcare system. That would not apply to you, but should you want to talk to an english-speaking therapist in Sweden I just found this:

http://www.forwardtherapy.se/

I have no affiliation with him whatsoever, and can't know if he'll be better or worse than your previous encounters with therapists. But might be worth a shot to try a therapist not in Texas with another background.

DanBC• 13 years ago

Be careful with financial decision. Do not give away all your money. Poor people can also feel worthless.

Consider volunteering. Many local organisations need people. You could do something that uses all your tech skills, but you may find it useful to do something that is just work; shifting boxes or somesuch.

Moving abroad would be a brilliant experience, but please do so carefully. Please do not "burn your bridges". It's good that you can see that there are ways out of the situation that you are in, but it's gently concerning that the methods you're using are destructive.

As others have said, consider Cognitive Behaviour Therapy. (Or other good quality therapies.) These can be self applied from books ("Mind Over Mood") or Websites (MoodGym (https://moodgym.anu.edu.au/welcome) ) or via therapists.

And if you really want to give some cash away I have an Amazon wishlist ;-)

rolledover14• 13 years ago

This community truly has amazing people in it. Thank you for the recommendations, I will be using those sources asap.

pfortuny2• 13 years ago

Hi,

It took me 6 (probably more) years to find a really useful psychiatrisc who dealt with me in a proper fashion (mostly let me decide wether I wanted to take pills or not AND made me conscious the first thing one needs is PATIENCE, the second one is LOVE. In this order: there is no use in love if you do not have patience.)

Patience is hard, hard, hard to acquire (it needs a lot of time) but you have to struggle.

Love depends on your having caring family/friends. You can get a lot of love on the Internet as well, but it is not the same thing as being looked after and dealt with in real life.

However, I would reccomend a real psychiatrist, not just a 'therapist'. And not being afraid of medicines. BUT: you need both, medicines and therapy, not just one or the other.

At the same time, you need to focus, day by day, on something that really engages you. You are right now probably unable to enjoy long periods of work/sports/entertainment. But you need to set definite and realistic aims for each day. Examples:

* Today I am going to write ONE blog post, just one. And that is what I am doing today. If I do, then I shall celebrate it with some whatever (a cup of wine, a film, a good ice-cream, whatever you fancy) but CELEBRATE SUCCESS ALWAYS.

* Today I am going to code for half an hour minutes (if you like coding). Same about celebrating.

* Today I am going to visit so-and-so, whom I know is ill and enjoys my company. CELEBRATE.

* Today I am just going for a walk listening to ....

Of course, a long-term project (with NO OBLIGATIONS, just a project) helps in having daily aims. But no OBLIGATIONS: your pet project which can get all the time in the world.

Celebrate your good actions. You do a lot every day.

Just having got out of bed and having a shower is enough to celebrate. Really.

Go get some help. You will need time, but get it.

I'll pray for you.

(Edit grammar & style.)

rolledover14• 13 years ago

"Love depends on your having caring family/friends" This is something I have never had until recently when I met my girlfriend. Even to this day, and even if I had something really important to talk about to my parents, I couldn't get their ear for more than 1 minute without losing their interest. They've always taught me to deny my feelings, and have never really listened to me. I guess if I was smarter I would have dealt with it better, but sadly I am not. Thank you, I am keeping in mind what you said about patience and love. These are both things my current girlfriend has, and I found myself strongly attracted to her for these qualities. I cry often when I think of her because I am so grateful for her kindness and patience with me. She is the first person in the world (irl) that has actually listened to me.

You know, I think if I could earn 40k per year coding, it would take the pressure off for me. I've never started just because I never thought I could compete with the naturals that went to MIT and represented Will from Good Will Hunting, but maybe I've just been blowing things out of proportion. I've always been able to figure things out, and I did earn a degree in engineering (although not CS) and rise in the company ranks, so I must be somewhat useful. I guess I never give myself any credit either. Maybe I do have imposter syndrome like another user commented. I will make it a point to celebrate more and narrow down to just ONE thing a day for the meantime. Right now, I am so overwhelmed that I end up doing nothing. And it just perpetuated. Although I haven't properly replied to many of the comments here, it has really helped me just reading what people have suggested, and talking it out.

pfortuny2• 13 years ago

I'm glad you have someone who loves you irl and you FEEL it. Very very important.

The 'one thing a day' is useful because able people (like you and I) tend to think 'what the heck, I can do this and that and those' and, when we are sick, we end up doing nothing at all, and despise ourselves because 'look, I should have done all those things I am capable of and ended up doing none'. Thus, the one-thing-a-day aim is very good to focus and lift up one's self-worthiness.

Try not to think of your duties & obligations, only of things that you can do and then celebrate. By the way: celebrate even if you feel crushed and worthless. One of the main steps is to notice that one is able to 'put aside' (wrong expression but) one's feelings and ACT according to one's will. (This takes time, effort and help and cannot be done at once, just keep on trying).

Being listened to, that is so so necessary. And then, at the same time, notice how she likes, enjoys and values you. You are worthy to her: this is very very important as an objective valuation of yours.

Good luck and keep the fight on. It is hard but worth the effort.

ikhahmedov• 13 years ago

Take a rest and pick up one book, read it. My advise maybe not tech-related but it helps. I would recommend Qur'an. Yes, it is Muslims book and so I am. Don't be afraid to read it, I am 100% sure that what's in Qur'an will help you. You need hope, you will get it, you need change, you will get it. At least you will know what is Islam. I wish you the best.

chrisphonk• 13 years ago

I can't just accept that I'm going to be one of the lower class the rest of my life

Money won't change that.

rolledover14• 13 years ago

touche, I didn't mean it in that way by any means. I should have used different wording, you're right.

nicholas73• 13 years ago

1.5 million dollars or what? Right out of school, meaning either stock option windfall or trading windfall. So you don't really feel like you earned it.

DO NOT BLOW THIS MONEY. For 99.99999% of people this is a lifetime of labor, if that. You think it's easy to make money - think again. Whatever dollar amount you think you need to feel good about yourself, it's NOT WORTH THE RISK OF LOSING THIS. Then you'll definitely be suicidal. It's infinitely harder to start from the bottom because you'll have to work just to cover fixed costs.

Don't touch the money at all. Put it all away. Let it generate some income to live on. Then think about your life. You will need time. You will need to confront your past, and your parents.

Read James Altucher. He went through the same thing, blew all his money and back again.

DO NOT RISK THIS MONEY. It is freedom money. More money doesn't help you any more than this the level for freedom.

wturner• 13 years ago

This post has to be someones idea of satire. (Assuming it's not) If you have the social intelligence to make this kind of money you definitely have the social intelligence to build something to do good in the world and get "really" rich. I'm the working american unemployed poor at the moment. I've been trying to build something of "my own" for quite a while and can't get my head around the social confusion to save my life. Here's an idea for you. See if you can make a simple online project that generates a profit. Seriously. Just see if you can make something that generates a profit. No VC money, no complicated bloated bureaucratic outside help. Just you researching and experimenting ... and a terminal. If you can do that, and coupled with the resources you have, you could seriously be dangerous. But I still think this post is a leg pull.

llamataboot• 13 years ago

95% chance of troll but whatever. Yes, find a good therapist. Compassion for your suffering. On the other hand 1.5 million is more money than the majority of Americans will make in their life, combined. Could try giving it all away?

It is hopeless, but I still can't accept it

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