Join Oliver Stone and Noam Chomsky in Urging Correa to Grant Snowden Asylum

http://org.salsalabs.com/o/1439/p/dia/action3/common/public/?action_KEY=13829

by mrleinad • 13 years ago

40 17 13 years ago

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frozenport2• 13 years ago

While he doesn't have as strong a name as Putin, Rafael Correa is not a nice guy and Ecuador's political situation is ugly. We recently saw HN posts about the surveillance equipment they are buying.

I think its irresponsible for Correa to hurt the lives of his citizens by hurting US-Ecaduaror ties just to make fun of the USA.

_djo_3• 13 years ago

No. While I believe Snowden did the right thing by releasing information on the NSA's domestic spying, he lost my support by going on to release information detailing how the NSA spied on foreign states. He crossed a line when doing that and as such he ought to face the US legal system.

Plus, as others have said, Ecuador is hardly a paragon of freedom. It spies on its citizens in ways just as blatant and intrusive as that of the US, if not more, and political dissent and media freedom is only barely tolerated.

Let's not allow the rightful anger over the NSA's domestic activities blind us into giving Snowden a free pass to leak whatever he has (in his own words he regards all surveillance as wrong) or into believing that Rafael Correa is on the side of those of us who don't like pervasive state surveillance.

sneak2• 13 years ago

Being a subversive undemocratic prick is being a subversive undemocratic prick whether you do it to US citizens or to Chinese university backbone router users.

Also, Ecuador's status as free/not free is a red herring - he should be granted asylum simply so that he can avoid being tortured while in US custody, something they have demonstrated they are more than willing to do to leakers.

Also, it is difficult to concede your point about facing the US legal system even if I agreed with your basic premise, considering the embarrassing and reprehensible treatment of Bradley Manning.

From months of torture to a show trial (he was publicly declared guilty by Obama before his trial even started), even if we were in agreement that Snowden MAY have done anything wrong (which we aren't), to suggest that the US legal system at present is in any way resembling something that can produce justice in these matters is disingenuous at best and maliciously jingoistic at worst.

_djo_3• 13 years ago

Manning falls under the Uniform Code of Military Justice, Snowden does not. That alone means that he cannot be treated the same before his trial. It especially means he cannot be tortured or denied legal representation.

I still have faith in the US's civilian courts to deliver a fair verdict in Snowden's case, despite its flaws.

Numberwang• 13 years ago

Spying on foreign states is't a very moral pursuit in my book. And your comment on Ecuador is completely irrelevant to your argument.

eightyone2• 13 years ago

It's not ok for the U.S. to hack major Chinese telecoms to spy on it's citizens.

_djo_3• 13 years ago

Why not? Do you think other countries are not hacking US telecoms to spy on US citizens?

The main threats in the world are no longer just states, they're also small groups of individuals capable of doing a ton of damage. I see no way for the NSA or CIA to be able to do their jobs without being permitted to spy on foreign citizens.

The protections for American citizens against their government spying on them are intended to preserve political freedom in the US. Security is traded for liberty. That same relationship does not exist between the US government and foreign citizens like me.

volume2• 13 years ago

Let's say it's "not ok" - who enforces such a thing? The International Court of Justice? If so, it sounds like the US simply can veto a ICJ decision: http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-international-court-of-j...

volume2• 13 years ago

Are you saying Snowden's actions result in a net loss overall because he went further to release info about NSA's spying on foreign states? In other words - Snowden has done more harm than good?

In general I'm ok with knowing whatever is true, for better or for worse. I mean, in a lot of ways, I don't really want to know the exact opinions people have of me at work like about how I look, dress or smell. :)

Zigurd• 13 years ago

Google "Alek Boyd" and "Thor Halvorssen" before you take their word for what's going on in Ecuador.

mpyne• 13 years ago

No. Snowden's own father acknowledges that he technically broke the law, and is especially worried about him getting mixed up with WikiLeaks (gee, I wonder why he'd be worried about the perception of that happening?).

I actually think the government could accede to the requests of Snowden's father completely and still get justice in the end (though we'll see what they do).

dllthomas• 13 years ago

Ecuador should grant Snowden asylum, but even more Obama should pardon Snowden. Sign that petition (https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/pardon-edward-snow...), if you haven't, whether or not you sign this one.

Join Oliver Stone and Noam Chomsky in Urging Correa to Grant Snowden Asylum

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