German Parliament says: Stop Granting Software Patents

https://fsfe.org/news/2013/news-20130422-01.en.html

by chalst • 13 years ago

428 25 13 years ago

kleiba• 13 years ago

Software patents are illegal under the European Patent Convention. Nevertheless, the European Patent Office has granted tens of thousands of patents covering software.

Then what's the point of the European Patent Convention?

grabeh• 13 years ago

http://archive.epo.org/epo/pubs/oj007/11_07/11_5947.pdf

The above link gives details over the approach taken by the EPO, giving examples of pure software patents which were rejected whilst also illustrating the approach taken to granted patents in the area.

My understanding is that software in its own right cannot be patented but where software is incorporated into a specific product to provide functionality it can be patented.

/edit The following link also provides good information. Essentially, the barrier is very low to establishing that a software patent achieves a technical measure and falls outside the exception. For example in HTC v Apple, a lower court judge found a multi-touch related patent invalid as a computer programme, however a higher court overturned this ruling.

http://ipkitten.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/from-alice-to-apple-p...

lloeki• 13 years ago

where software is incorporated into a specific product to provide functionality it can be patented.

Actually it is more like when a process like the one that can usually be patented contains software, then the software part can be included in the patent covering the whole process.

The key part of Art. 52 §3 creating exemptions from §2 is "as such" [0].

Say you invent a robot able to weld faster and more precisely. You can request a patent covering the robot and, being a fundamental part of it, the control logic implemented in software. Yet you can not try and patent the control logic by itself, nor sue anyone using the exact same control logic anywhere else, including in robots (as long as they themselves don't infringe on the patent). Conversely, someone using the same robot design but a different software algorithm may not be infringing the original patent. This protects both the innovator from being flat out ripped of and everyone's right to use algorithms and mathematics freely, while incremental innovations are allowed either in software or in hardware.

[0] http://www.epo.org/law-practice/legal-texts/html/epc/2010/e/...

_stephan• 13 years ago

See the correction in the text:

[Correction 2013-04-24: Parliament did not yet adopt the motion, but rather decided to pass it to the parliament committees for further consideration.]

chalst• 13 years ago

The subcommittee met last Friday and unanimously recommended the motion be accepted. See http://www.gewerblicher-rechtsschutz.jurion.de/news/?user_ak... (in German). Since Die Linke have said they will abstain, the motion should pass overwhelmingly.

mtgx• 13 years ago

This seems a month old. Has it become a law yet?

patrickg• 13 years ago

I don't think so. I would have heard otherwise.

rbehrends2• 13 years ago

It is a resolution, not legislation. In practice, almost any legislation with significant effect would have to occur at the European level.

It is still a big story, because it is a motion supported by all parties in the German parliament except the "Linke" (who don't like software patents, either). That would at the very least indicate that German interests seem to be pretty strongly aligned against software patents.

twald• 13 years ago

I'm from Germany. Havn't read anything about this on news or tech sites for weeks.

BostX• 13 years ago

Let's sing along: There's a long way to Tipperary, there's a long way to gooo. Sincerely Hans der Lobbyist

PaulHoule• 13 years ago

The Google Economy has hurt the web in a number of ways.

There are some very large web sites I could deliver as a single page app (looks cool, loads faster, etc.) but that's like having a "cloak of invisibility" so far as Google is concerned.

btilly• 13 years ago

I've seen people try that. I've seen them break the back button.

Users were not happy.

marssaxman• 13 years ago

Single-page apps hurt the web; they break navigation. It's a good thing that Google penalizes them.

dredmorbius• 13 years ago

plus.google.com

narag• 13 years ago

I have an idea to curb patent damage. Leave patent registrars as just that: a proof that the holder registered the idea. Actually that's exactly what the USPTO is now really.

If they want to use the patent in a suit for the first time, then trigger a much more rigorous process to test its validity.

matthiasl• 13 years ago

I like that idea too. The FFII (not known for their love of the patent system as used for software in some places) has proposed a more complex approach based on that idea, where there's a bounty system in place to act as a sort of garbage-collection mechanism to remove duplicate ideas:

http://eupat.ffii.org/07/p2parl/exam/

Eifrig• 13 years ago

Not compatible with FOSS licensing? Sure that may be true for AGPL but BSD is the framework that grants patent rights under FOSS and is precisely the thing to mitigate copyright shortfalls. This is just the EU not being helpful. Again...

kragen3• 13 years ago

As explained in the comments here, it's difficult to tell what is and isn't a "software patent". Remember that the famous Unix crypt() patent was described in terms of a circuit, and then also mentioned in passing that software implementations of the same logic would also be covered. (A dependent claim, I assume? I haven't read the patent.)

It seems to me that what we need is not immunity from granting patents on software, but immunity from enforcing patents against software. I propose a very simple test: if a system with its software erased would not infringe the patent, then the system should be considered not to infringe the patent. Thus, arrangements of machine parts, formulations of coatings, and non-programmable circuits would be subject to patent litigation; but entire machines that wouldn't function at all without software would not be.

saraid2162• 13 years ago

It seems to me that what we need is not immunity from granting patents on software, but immunity from enforcing patents against software.

If we're not going to enforce a patent against software, why grant it in the first place?

kragen3• 13 years ago

I'm not proposing abolishing the patent system altogether; I'm proposing to protect software from it, while allowing the enforcement of patents against things that are legitimately subject to patents.

malkia• 13 years ago

Wasn't fraunhoffer a german institution - the one behind mp3 codec?

gauravkumar552• 13 years ago

If software patents are illegal then how the hell they can grant ten thousands software patents? I hope they modify the copyright approach a little better and remove software patents to help save open source softwares.

German Parliament says: Stop Granting Software Patents

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