Radical Honesty: I Think You're Fat (2007)

http://www.esquire.com/features/honesty0707

by jonas_b • 17 years ago

55 48 17 years ago

yan• 17 years ago

AJ Jacobs writes really cool 'project' pieces: he dedicates himself to an idea and writes articles and books about it. I loved "A year of living biblically" and am hoping to read "Know it all" sometime soon.

rcs• 17 years ago

I can say, w\o hyperbole, that radical honesty ruined my life. Do not, I repeat do not believe that people are generally good, want to help you, will appreciate your honesty.

Now, I didn't do anything stupid like telling my boss that I'd like to sleep with his daughter, but, when he asked me where I saw myself in 5 years I did say that I wanted to start my own business.

Our relationship went from great to icy.

Over the next seven months my work life became a living hell. I went from "valued team contributor" to "does not function as part of the unit." My dedication was called into question and eventually I was told that the company had changed and that I was no longer useful.

I wasn't fired, but, I was left alone in my office, no new tasks were assigned, my medical condition was not accommodated, etc.

I eventually left my position, lost my gf because of it, ruined my credit after I couldn't find a new job, and have been unable to get loans to return to school (after leaving to help out my former employer.)

I often wonder what my life would be like if I had just said: "In five years I see myself working for you with only a slight raise!"

Don't try this at home.

Femur• 17 years ago

I upvoted you because, as your anecdote suggests, lying is an important social tool. No matter how liberating it may be, telling the blunt truth hurts other people and yourself.

jonas_b2• 17 years ago

I find this interesting because I myself have had a great improvement in my relationship with my dad and some of my friends just by being able to communicate more directly.

My dad actually told me a few days ago something he had learned from a friend, that anything that you say to another person with absolute sincerity and respect is, in fact, a gift to the other person. And I'm starting to believe him.

I would be very interested to hear what got you started with radical honesty, or was it just in that moment with your boss that you were excessively candid?

tokenadult• 17 years ago

absolute sincerity and respect

The tough situation in life is only being able to be sincere when expressing disrespect, because the other guy deserves disrespect. What do you think about this? (I'll treat your honest answer as a respectful answer, whatever you say.)

Raplh• 17 years ago

I upvoted this because clearly, if something can hurt you you should know about that before trying it.

But I am interested: was your problem a fundamental one, or were you perhaps not adequately prepared to try this? How much "training" did you do on the concept before trying it? Did you read his books? Go to his workshops?

I have done tremendous "work" (i.e. therapy, workshops, "New Thought" classes) and when I see this, I am intrigued, but my response was to send notes to my friends and to order some books on it. I'll discuss it with my "New Thought" class tonight. I'll discuss it with my wife before telling her about all the magnificent and desirable... etc. But I mean its like all the time, you know?

physcab• 17 years ago

To play devil's advocate, I would say that perhaps the benefits of being radically honest haven't been made apparent to you yet.

I don't know anything about you but let's have a little thought experiment here:

Sure it has seemingly destroyed your life in the short term, but I would argue that having a less kitschy life might be good for you.

Let's take your situation claim by claim. By being open and honest with your boss, you indirectly put an end to your career. But had you lied and remained there, would you have always been happy? Surely your dreams were to start your own business.

Now your gf. Again, I don't know anything about your relationship. But if your gf left due to financial reasons, wasn't it better to learn that lesson sooner rather than later?

Your credit. With the same disclaimers as above, perhaps having your credit destroyed was a forceful way of telling you to refocus your priorities in life. no?

You can always wonder what your life might have been like if you made a different decision. I do that all the time. But I'd like to think that honesty opens doors, not closes them. You might disagree with everything I just wrote, but I would like to see your response a year (or 5) from now how your life has changed.

redrobot50508• 17 years ago

Over and over people here on HN tell each other the same old advice: "Execution is everything."

By being radically honest with your boss, you executed a career change poorly. Nothing else needs to be said. We could speculate that had he executed his career aspirations better, he would've ended up founding his own businessa, on his own terms, with his former boss on board as a character reference or angel investor.

Likewise, the girlfriend might not have left for a financial reason: It might have been a combination of money and his medical condition going un-addressed.

Having your credit destroyed makes it harder, not easier to start your own business. "Focusing on your priorities" doesn't mean shit. Realistically $10k in debt, or poor credit, sets you back 7 years compared to most of your peers. "Get used to living on less -- like always within your meager means" might be a better mantra.

Also, he might've also been a dreamer with no intention of working for himself. In my approximation, that's 80% of the people here on HN. To them, the grass is greener, but they won't ever dare try climbing the fence.

iigs• 17 years ago

I can say, w\o hyperbole, that radical honesty ruined my life.

Do you truly feel that your life is ruined? It sounds like you are/were in a bad situation, but do you not see yourself bouncing back eventually?

(some brutal honesty here, if you'll permit me) You need to take responsibility for your life. You got dealt a shitty hand, but what is past is past. You have skills and aspirations and you are the only person that can apply the skills toward the aspirations.

petercooper2• 17 years ago

I also wouldn't advise one other form of lying he partakes in:

I lie to the IRS. I always take more deductions than are justified.

He must be nuts to state this publicly.

donaldc• 17 years ago

What do you mean, you couldn't find a new job? It sounds like you had at least a year from when things got icy to when your life was destroyed. If you can't find another job in a year, perhaps the great disaster wasn't all your employer's fault.

redrobot50508• 17 years ago

That's more of a geographically loaded question.

Where I'm living, which is far from ideal if you're into tech, there's maybe six companies capable of paying me what I'm worth on the local job market. They all know they're the biggest and the best in the area. Two have really dickish HR that make me doubt they're actually a good company worth working for. One I personally know treats its employees like garbage.

So there's three real companies you can work for in my area. Of those, I work at one. I am waiting to hear back from the other two. From one, I know it will likely not be good.

So where does this really leave me? Careerwise, I'm trapped. I need to re-locate if I want to find something better. Or find a telecommuting gig. Or start my own company, etc.

Radical Honesty, especially from strangers, just ends up being the "hypothetical 20/20 hindsight voice" and a bunch of personal responsibility b.s. I bet its also his fault he had a medical condition that affects his health?

thismat3• 17 years ago

I practice this on a daily basis as I don't even believe in using lying as a social tool.

Sometimes it's best to not saying anything when you don't have a good answer, or the answer is inappropriate.

PieSquared2• 17 years ago

Lying through silence is still lying.

krav• 17 years ago

Listen, it's a lot simpler than this. You took an action: honesty. Your boss responded: icy. Your next action should be: what do I do with this response? If it's sitting and doing nothing in your office, then you will bear the fruits of that.

On the other hand, if you took that time to focus on what you wanted - start your own business - you could be living your dream right now.

It's never too late. Life isn't our circumstances. It's what we do with our circumstances.

I applaud you for being honest with your boss. He handled it like a simpleton. A true leader would either inspire you to stay or inspire you to give your all while you're there.

Given where you are now, be honest with yourself, dust yourself off, and go start that business!

gcheong2• 17 years ago

Well it seems you considered it was safe to be honest with your boss because you felt you had a good relationship with him but in reality you found out it was only predicated on your apparent dedication to him. I think it's better to find these things out sooner than later.

"my medical condition was not accommodated" That would have seem to have been grounds for some legal action in my opinion or a least a good reason for getting unemployment benefits after you left.

"Now, I didn't do anything stupid like telling my boss that I'd like to sleep with his daughter,..."

Yeah, you could have ended up married to her...

Jem• 17 years ago

I made a similar mistake in a job interview once. I was interviewing for a position as IT technician, and the network manager asked me where I wanted to be in 5 years time. I responded "in your job".

It didn't go down well, and although I explained that I meant "in a position of responsibility such as that of network manager" rather than replacing him in his actual job, we never did get on. Although I got the job, I was forced to quit just over 3 months later because I couldn't stand the tension.

It turned out that he was an asshole to everyone, but I have a feeling I marked my cards somewhat.

redrobot50508• 17 years ago

I agree with this one. I mentioned to a program lead that I felt I was ready for responsibility such as being a program lead, and despite writing the prototype of the system we were designing, having intimate knowledge of the requirements, performance awards and recognition for my dedication to that client, i got stuck on doing the metrics module all by myself. And it was slated to be replaced (as soon as I was done with it) with an off-the-shelf reporting tool.

Bottom line: If you feel you're ready for the next level, find a place that wants you there and will take you in. Don't ever let your boss know you're not 100% in love with the shit sandwiches you're being fed.

boredguy8• 17 years ago

Where's the follow-through, the conversation where you say, "I'm mad at you for being vindictive when I shared my life goals. It seems we can both benefit by what I shared, but you're just being petty." How did that go? Or the conversation with his boss?

One moment of insipid 'bravery' is not 'radical honesty'.

padmanabhan01• 17 years ago

//'when he asked me where I saw myself in 5 years I did say that I wanted to start my own business.'

The article does warn: '"I advocate never lying in personal relationships. But if you have Anne Frank in your attic and a Nazi knocks on the door, lie....I lie to any government official."

Some bosses or people should be treated like govt officials.

jonas_b2• 17 years ago

Funny video about this guy's attempt to run for congress.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gx-OVdTkwvA

lukifer• 17 years ago

I've often wished that our cultural values would reverse when it comes to gaffes and skeletons in the closet: that we would only trust politicians who are insultingly blunt and who wear their failings on their sleeves. Any candidate who looks too squeaky-clean would be laughed out of the room as obviously trying to deceive and manipulate us.

I can dream, right?

Nwallins• 17 years ago

Print Link -- One page, mostly text: http://www.esquire.com/print-this/honesty0707

petercooper2• 17 years ago

I hope someone else can remember this, but wasn't there a link around here recently (possibly elsewhere) about how it was speculated that the ability to lie was thought to distinguish us from other animals? That is, lying is a concept associated with intelligence?

Of course, I could be wrong, and am merely trying to make a point without standing behind it, so that I can avoid the humiliation of being called out on it.

randallsquared3• 17 years ago

Dogs and cats can and do lie, by trying to cover up things they've done (literally, usually), and by trying to direct your attention away from where it's covered up.

paulgb3• 17 years ago

How do you define lying, though? Does the animal have intent to deceive, or does he just have a cause/effect memory that makes it behave in ways we anthropomorphize as lying?

I've seen some dogs do some pretty clever things, and I think they have more brains than most people give them credit for, but I don't think they intentionally deceive.

gcheong2• 17 years ago

Koko the Gorilla seems to lie intentionally.

'She lies when it suits her. "Who broke the kitchen sink?" one of the staff asks her. Koko indicates another staff member, whirls about and starts to laugh.'

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1252/is_12_131/ai_n85...

Even Alex the Parrot seemed to intentionally give wrong answers to questions when he was bored with a task.

DaniFong• 17 years ago

I think in some sense that Blanton is advocating an intellectually lazy kind of radical honesty. It's not communicating to excrete whatever verbalizations come to mind because there is no one thing on your mind. You are forced to censor, or at least edit, what you say, by the limitations of the channel.

The real value, I think, in honesty, is that it brings one's thoughts out in the open to work with, instead of sapping one's energy and directing it towards the construction of some facade.

MrGunn• 17 years ago

If we could learn not to reward people who are essentially better liars, it would be great!

One step removed from that is to just admit what you're thinking to yourself. You can leave a facade up for other people if necessary, but at least stop trying to fool yourself.

dkarl• 17 years ago

Radical honesty isn't a presently effective means of communication. It's an attempt to reform the channel and move towards a new protocol. Radical honesty guarantees being misunderstood in the short run, because if you say something more honest than expected, you're communicating -- according to the prevailing protocol -- "I'm desperate" or "Fuck you" or both or something worse. You have to accept the cost of the miscommunication you cause by speaking your own niche language to people who only speak the prevailing language (and probably speak it more fluently than you do, simply because they specialize.)

Frankly, I don't see the point. Most people are pretty honest already, if you understand the language they speak. White lies are designed to be transparent; people who expect them to deceive don't get it, and people who are deceived by white lies deceive themselves. "You're not fat" can mean so many things depending on how you say it:

1. You're not fat.

2. You're worried about being fat? Really?

3. Why are you asking that when we're all twenty pounds heavier than you? What kind of bitch are you? Fish for your compliments somewhere else.

4. You're fat, but I don't want to hear about your problems.

5. A better question is, are you hot? And the answer is yes.

Et cetera. There's no point in being dissatisfied with the channel and the protocol because you can actually communicate whatever you want on it. I'd rather just get better at speaking and understanding the language that everybody else speaks. The only problem is that sometimes honesty is unexpected, and the protocol is not optimized for unexpected honesty. If you want to say something completely honest, you might have to spend some time setting it up to avoid it being interpereted as "Fuck you."

david72486• 17 years ago

I think that part of the success of "Radical Honesty" is not directly about honesty, but about taking risks. So many people live a bland life because they cannot fathom "making waves". This is normal. However, "Radical Honesty" forces us to break these laws. I think life is meant for excitement, and this is one way of achieving it. (As Tim Ferriss and others have pointed out) Happiness and Sadness are two sides of the same coin. Its boredom that makes life miserable.

NonEUCitizen• 17 years ago

"when he [your boss] asked me where I saw myself in 5 years I did say that I wanted to start my own business... Our relationship went from great to icy."

hmm... if you're in Silicon Valley, it's assumed that everyone wants to start his/her own business.

rsheridan6• 17 years ago

My hunch is that this is a charismatic (evidence: he's fucked 500 women) guy telling everybody "be more like me." That reminds me of somebody I used to work for who would say things to people that would have gotten me fired or beaten up in the parking lot, but he got away with it because he was charming.

So what happens when somebody with average or sub-average charisma tries it?

redrobot50508• 17 years ago

You get fired. And beaten up in the parking lot.

The real trick is to be more charismatic. Charisma can be learned. Your image can be polished. Its a question of time, drive, and priorities. Every "I've fucked 500 women, be more like me" guy on the planet states that their skills are teachable.

So learn the skills. The smarmy, stuck-up, get-away-with-the-most-inconsiderate-things part is just something that you learn you can get away with AFTER you've learned to be charismatic.

mannicken• 17 years ago

I don't think so. I view people around me as animals, a part of natural environment (like trees, rocks, water).

I am dedicated to _always_ play a role. Just like I wouldn't go and jump from a bridge to defy gravity I wouldn't say "God doesn't exist" to my mother, who is a fundamental Christian. I am not particularly scared of consequences of saying "fuck you, pig" to a policeman but I'm also not scared of banging my head against the wall. Yet, I don't see any particular reason why I should bang my head against the wall.

I like PG's essay "Things you can't say" since it describes me so perfectly. Inside my mind anything is allowed, even the most perverse and horrible fantasies -- ANYTHING. Yet, not much of this goes outside :)

Radical Honesty: I Think You're Fat (2007)

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