Women in Technology, Rise of the Anti-Movement

https://medium.com/the-internet/b0f485a1f70

by zdgman • 13 years ago

19 17 13 years ago

Good stuff. True equality is only obtained when everyone is treated equally. Putting women on a pedestal is /almost/ as bad as treating them as inferior.

DanielStraight• 13 years ago

How do you feel about...

http://raganwald.posterous.com/the-keep

kmfrk• 13 years ago

Is the paragraph commenting system on Medium a new thing?

Haven't noticed it before.

EDIT: Introduced April 10: https://medium.com/about/8304190661d4.

Millennium6• 13 years ago

The problem with this article is that it doesn't actually say much new. The idea that it would be good to have more women in technology, as an end in itself rather than a means to some further end, is fairly widely accepted already.

The next question is how to bring that about, and this is where the arguments bog down, because this is where most of the disagreements are really happening anymore. We can't "move past rhetoric" until we agree on how to move forward, but that agreement is going to require rhetoric in its own right.

WalterSear2• 13 years ago

The current rhetoric is acrimonious, partisan and has lost feminism a lot of formerly diehard support.

Millennium6• 13 years ago

This is true as far as it goes, but what do you propose to replace the acrimonious and partisan rhetoric? We really haven't reached agreement on how to proceed (there's even still some argument about whether we should, though that is mostly in the background nowadays). Without agreement, we've no choice but to talk, and that brings us back to where we are now.

illuminate2• 13 years ago

"has lost feminism a lot of formerly diehard support."

Among what, fairweather "friends"? People interested in equality don't throw a fit when their privilege(s) are questioned.

papsosouid2• 13 years ago

It may not be new, but it clearly still needs to be said. The way to move forward is exactly as the article says: just stop discriminating. Don't treat female programmers as female programmers and male programmers as male programmers. Treat all of them as programmers. So many well meaning people try to be "inclusive" by singling out women and making a big stink about what they think women want/need/desire/dislike/etc, and then women become the target of people's unhappiness with bad polices that were put in to "help" them, which they never wanted or asked for.

Millennium6• 13 years ago

What is discrimination? We don't even have a consensus answer to that question yet, except in terms so broad and vague that they cease to be useful. So we break down into factions that attempt to define it unilaterally, which never ends well.

"Just stop discriminating" sounds like such a simple phrase, but the truth is that it's loaded with very complex and personal issues and meanings. The biggest blowups we've seen recently ultimately reduce to very passionate disagreements about the particulars of what it means to discriminate. Until that gets resolved, we're not going to be able to go very much further.

jseliger• 13 years ago

We desperately need more women in tech and that's how we have been pursuing them, desperately. Women don't want to be treated differently and they don't want more focus put on them.

The problem is that I've seen a lot of articles about women in x (and x is often tech) end by saying that women need special programs and mentorship and opportunities and so on; am too lazy to dig them up now but chances are good you've seen them too.

The other issue is that if a specific company gets accused of a gender ratio imbalance, they can point at the special program and mentorship and opportunities as specific things, but it's very hard to show that the company is being "be more inclusive instead of polarizing."

Women in Technology, Rise of the Anti-Movement

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