Redcar is cool, but I still can’t use Linux

http://lucasrockwell.com/2009/03/redcar-is-cool-but-i-still-cant-use-linux/

by lr • 17 years ago

16 21 17 years ago

jfreedom• 17 years ago

I feel like this post is just an OSX fan ranting about how he likes his hot keys in this spot instead of that spot.

jmtulloss• 17 years ago

I disagree. There is a fundamental difference. In OS X, keys tend to do the same things everywhere because there is this carefully drawn distinction between Cmd and Control. Other OS's have context sensitive key bindings.

Of course this isn't universally true, but OS X does seem to do it better than the other two.

spkthed2• 17 years ago

Apple has done a good job of keeping software relatively uniform, instead of having random menus, keystrokes, UI's they've managed to keep the look and feel of most programs relatively similar.

But, key bindings are hardly OS dependent, rendering the general point of this post irrelevant. It would be really interesting to see this transformed into a rant against a lack of uniform standards for standard functions.

dhotson2• 17 years ago

I've recently switched to OSX from Ubuntu and I've found it equally frustrating in the other direction.

My biggest gripe is that the home and end keys don't work as I expect anymore. In Ubuntu (and windows afaik), the home and end keys work in pretty much every app (terminal, editor, browser and pretty much any text field) for moving to the start/end of the current line.

One of the other frustrations, which isn't entirely OSX's fault.. is that the shortcuts in my editor of choice (jEdit) sometimes use command and sometimes use ctrl.

I'm not trying to criticize any OS in particular.. but I've personally found it incredibly frustrating. I admit it's probably just because of keyboard shortcuts I've used for years are etched into my muscle memory.

I can definitely appreciate that switching in the other direction is equally as frustrating.

old-gregg• 17 years ago

In OS X, keys tend to do the same things everywhere because there is this carefully drawn distinction between Cmd and Control.

It's my 2nd year on the Mac and I continue to struggle with hotkeys: they are a mess.

On top of my head: how come Ctrl+left won't bring me to the end of the line in Terminal but does in every other editable window? And why Shift+Command+arrows switch tabs in Terminal but not in Safari? OSX doesn't even have a universal "close this goddamn window" hot key, which drives me crazy - some windows go away with Esc while others need Command+W, plus you get a super weird 3rd variety which can't be closed from the keyboard at all!

OSX is by far the least typist friendly GUI in my humble opinion. On the other hand Linux, especially Gnome, absolutely rocks with their handling of hot keys: there are many more of them (I can move/resize windows on a keyboard) and the bindings are very consistent. Whereas OSX is simply not usable without a mouse: even top-level menu items don't have hot keys, like Alt+E for "Edit" or Alt+F for "File".

spkthed2• 17 years ago

Most OS's give you the ability to remap keys as you see fit. in addition, most modern Linux distros allow you to hook up an Apple keyboard. Combine the two and this entire post is unnecessary.

All of that being said, there's no difference between using the Apple key for commands vs. other key combos (ctrl-alt-shift, etc) it's simply user preference.

If you take this argument down to it's base level, it's a frustration at having to learn the UI of a new program, the equivalent of Vim vs Emacs. All of that is fine, but burying that sentiment in a general "only Mac software can do this" post which isn't the case.

All of this being said, it's looking more and more like Textmate development is dead, perhaps it's time to look at one of the alternatives?

indiejade• 17 years ago

Because OS X is the only OS that distinguishes between GUI editing and line editing.

Nope.

I could write a long point-by-point response to this post, but realized that I already did several months ago:

http://zentu.net/oss/?q=node/27

It's the concept of multiple desktops that Windows doesn't have and OSX doesn't get, either, that makes working on Linux systems so worth it. Productivity can be dependent upon how you organize and switch between these desktops.

psadauskas• 17 years ago

And if you use some of the lightweight window managers (Awesome, XMonad, Ion), they've all pretty much decided that the Windows key is the modifier to use for all window-manager shortcuts. Every app gets to use Ctrl & Alt however they like. Win+key is for the window manager itself, and is very convenient.

blackguardx• 17 years ago

I just got a mac last week. I am a brand new mac user and don't see where the author is going with his rant. Why should Ubuntu change the default settings just to please him?

My last computer was loaded with Ubuntu. There are so many annoying differences between the two operating systems. I grumble, but I don't write a caustic article about them because I expect these difference to occur. These OSes have completely separate histories and were built by completely different people. There is no universally perfect computer interface.

I think this article is akin to complaining about the differences in the shifting pattern on Honda and BMW cars.

EDIT: spelling and grammar

jhawk282• 17 years ago

I don't understand why anyone would use a "textmate lookalike" on linux if they already had the real thing on OSX.

itsandrew• 17 years ago

For me, I run Ubuntu on my netbook. It's nice to run a similar editor when I'm away from my Mac.

jhawk282• 17 years ago

Yes, but he was writing about using Linux on a mac with Redcar. It makes a lot of sense if you are not running OSX.

chanux• 17 years ago

The guy planning to install GNU/Linux (He didn't mention the GNU part) on a Virtual Machine. lame...

utx00• 17 years ago

If you are using the GNOME desktop use gconf-editor to set /desktop/gnome/interface/gtk_key_theme to "Emacs". As far as I can tell, everything works (like I am now typing ctrl-A on firefox to go to the beginning of this line)

There is also Alt, and Meta, and you can set your own keymaps in X.

Actually, one of the reasons I didn't like the mac is the lack of flexibility in this area (like re-mapping ctrl and caps lock). Doable but not as simple as in Linux.

nileshk2• 17 years ago

Actually, re-mapping Caps Lock to Ctrl is a very simple change in the system preferences (but not so if you want to map it to Esc). You can remap Cmd/Option/Ctrl/Caps-Lock to any of those 4 keys, and you can do it specifically for different keyboards (so you can have your laptop keyboard mapped differently than the external keyboard you have plugged in; especially nice for connecting a PC keyboard to your laptop).

Cocoa by default already has some of the Emacs-style keyboard shortcuts (CTRL-A/E/P/N/B/F/K/T/Y/etc), and these are partially supported in Firefox 3.0. And it looks like remapping keys for Cocoa apps is very flexible and powerful, but I haven't messed with it personally yet (though I plan to try to get things even more Emacs-like, which appears to be pretty doable).

Of course you can't beat the flexibility that's achievable in the open source desktops/window managers.

igorgue• 17 years ago

Well, I can't switch to OS X because I don't have Banshee on it, Terminator, multiple desktops implemented in the right way, multiple text-only terminals, the ability to just plain not use the mouse (and OS X sucks too in handling the mouse), consistency on hotkeys (GNOME), a file system that doesn't sucks... and I can go on...

I bought a mac last year spent like 1600USD on it... and is there... I still use my Linux laptop. The mac hardware is pretty cool but I feel so unproductive on it.

btw, I use VIM (in OS X, Linux and Windows)

VBprogrammer• 17 years ago

In short, Linux doesn't suit the authors needs (where needs is defined as having the same keyboard short cuts as his favorite operating system). Nothing to see here. I'm at a loss as to why the author feels Linux's eventual goal is to convert him to Linux, or what profit he sees in moving from OSX to Linux.

If for some reason he really is determined to make this conversion (without changing his keyboard shortcuts) then he is welcome to start a Linux keyboard shortcut unification project, since as the cliche goes, the source is there.

Redcar is cool, but I still can’t use Linux

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