We expect too much of geeks

http://threads2.scripting.com/2013/january/weExpectTooMuchOfGeeks

by benatkin • 14 years ago

187 87 14 years ago

threads2.scripting.com

Anechoic2• 14 years ago

The title references "geeks" while the actual post references "programmers" - I wish he had stuck with "geeks" as the challenges he describes are limited just to programmer or tech types, but are faced by folks in a number of scientific and engineering professions. Just think of what the EE's who worked on the Boeing 787 are going through right now.

neltnerb• 14 years ago

I'm not a programmer, but it's a little silly to expect someone to use examples from outside their domain expertise. It did seem like he derailed his own point into a weird cultural commentary on programmers though.

I like the comments about how to avoid being depressed and anxious about not being perfect. No one likes admitting they're fallible initially... it takes practice =) And I've had lots and lots of practice.

In grad school it sounds like it is not unlike his description of silicon valley (minus the piles of cash, dominance of Caucasians, and lack of women, of course). If you're confident, aggressive, and think you're good at what you're doing, you will probably end up being so eventually. At least if you are able to take your own fallibility in stride.

I remember trying to explain things to younger students (and often postdocs too) and asking often "does that make sense?" and "do you know what I mean by ..." and getting rapid nods. I wasn't asking because I'm trying to make them look stupid, I'm asking because the subject material is legitimately really hard, and no one knows all of it offhand. No one. And then this is followed up a week later by them clearly obviously definitively not having understood a word I said. Whereas if they had admitted to not knowing what I was talking about, I would have stepped back a bit further and explained it from an earlier stage with no problem.

One of my biggest domain examples of my own was when I was like "oh, the melting point of copper is really high, surely it will work okay as a conductor at 500C". Do'h. Man that was stupid. On the plus side, now I know all about oxidative corrosion...

Anechoic2• 14 years ago

it's a little silly to expect someone to use examples from outside their domain expertise

Right, I get that. But...

It did seem like he derailed his own point into a weird cultural commentary on programmers though

That's what I was commenting on - the way DW connected the initial thesis to the commentary made it seem (to me anyway) that these expectations were exclusive to programmers.

kunai• 14 years ago

Hmm. Perhaps if we expected more, then geeks wouldn't post up broken links for fear of under-delivering.

Just go to http://scripting.com/ if you want to see the article.

gregd• 14 years ago

I expected the URL to work...so therefore, I must be one of the ones that expect too much from geeks.

mjbellantoni• 14 years ago

This link works for me: 2jg.r2.ly (this is DW's link shortener.)

auggierose• 14 years ago

So the article says in Silicon Valley you can go far if you are male and young. I am male, but not as young as 15 years ago. Guess I have to make it outside of Silicon Valley ...

swombat2• 14 years ago

Don't worry, outside is a lot bigger. :-)

michaelochurch• 14 years ago

I didn't get to experience it in that way, but I wonder how much of the advantage of being young is legit. It is easiest to get jobs when you're 22, but it's hard to get good jobs and most of your attractiveness seems to be that it's much easier to take advantage of you.

davewiner2• 14 years ago

Sorry the server is getting swamped. Right now the best place to read this piece is http://scripting.com/.

Update: Traffic seems to have abated a bit. Not going to move it.

10dpd• 14 years ago

The problem is that the level of abstraction in modern languages means that the bar to becoming a programmer today is a lot lower than it was say in the 70s.

Can you imagine explaining to a programmer in the 70s that they'd be able to determine someones precise location, place that location on an interactive map, and share it with all their friends, all from a tiny device that they keep in their pocket thats programmed using a simple, high-level API?

As a result, yes society does expect a lot from programmers, and rightly so.

davewiner2• 14 years ago

The languages haven't changed much, but the price of computers has gone down.

In the 80s there were much simpler development environments than we have now. Turbo Pascal and Think C were the two I used.

It would be great to combine that level of ease of use and the browser or server-side programming environment.

But no one has gotten there yet.

As far as envisioning today's world of computing in the 70s, I was a programmer in the 70s and we envisioned this and a lot more. Read Ted Nelson's book Dream Machines for an idea.

Vivtek• 14 years ago

Yeah, any reader of Omni was right on board - I know I was. My mom worked at the post office (rural carrier) and I blew her mind telling her that email would largely supplant postal mail. She just reminded me of that last year, actually.

We all knew it was coming.

Also - yeah. I kind of miss Turbo Pascal. But I'd never give up CPAN for it. Ha.

Swizec• 14 years ago

Surely you're joking. In the 70's everyone thought computers understanding human speech and talking back in a natural language was just around the corner.

We still haven't gotten there.

Similar for general AI.

dakimov2• 14 years ago

Not true. The amount of information a modern programmer must keep in mind, be expert at, have hands on experience, or at least be aware of, is ridiculous. Platforms, languages, frameworks, libraries, areas - software architecture, algorithms, data structures, mathematics of any kind, graph theory, programming paradigms, system level programming, hardware level optimizations, OS architecture, networking, web technologies, client, server, Java, C#, JavaScript, HTML, CSS, XML, XSLT, C/C++, Python, Ruby, AI, speech synthesis/recognition, computer vision, computer graphics, sound processing, GPU computations, asynchronous, lock-free programming, dependency injection, databases, ORM, SQL, no-SQL, UI patterns, MVC, MVVP, compiler/interpreter design, text parsing, regular expressions, .Net, WinAPI, Unix, POSIX, mobile, iOS, Android, enormous amount of libraries often with huge APIs for each language and platform, etc., etc. - just a randomly picked fraction.

Of course, for most programmers it is only feasible to specialize, and even then the amount of data is enormous, e.g. you can study all the nuances of C++ or Java for years, and still not be an expert, and Java has plenty of libraries with a huge API overall, but practically you are required to have experience and deep knowledge of each commonly used one if you want to be hired as a Senior Developer, and that is just an example. It is a general rule that you are required to have deep knowledge of the area and technology you future employer is working with, despite it is one of an insane amount, and most of thar knowledge you will never use again.

mimog• 14 years ago

Strange article. I don't think its an innate geek property to feel almighty and infallible. The author seems to be conufsing geek with silicon valley megalomaniac/serial entrepremanur.

benatkin2• 14 years ago

Well as Anechoic said, in the post he keeps referencing programmers. This may refer more closely to the silicon valley types. But I know there are many outside silicon valley, and many within silicon valley who don't call themselves entrepreneurs but have an entrepreneurial mindset. I think if you look at the content and context of the article you can get a pretty good idea of what he means by "geek".

swombat2• 14 years ago

When young people risk it all, it would be nice if there were people who understood what they're going through, who could offer some perspective. Even better, if there was an oldtimer around when the world is telling you you're a god and can do no wrong, to tell you that's bullshit, to kick you in the butt, in a friendly way, tell you you're a mortal human being, and you need to understand that life has its ups and downs, and you're going to be around for a long time, and this is just the beginning, part of the learning process, and while it looks like everything is great now, or falling apart, or whatever emotion is driving you at this moment, let's go for a walk, get a burger, see a movie and hang out for a bit, watch a game, and notice all the other stuff that's going on.

This seems appropriate: http://www.kipling.org.uk/poems_if.htm

benatkin2• 14 years ago

Wonderful poem, and I like how it's presented. The public domain and the inexpensiveness in hosting allows for this.

rodh• 14 years ago

This article hits a nerve for me.

There's in particular a sentence right at the start. "If you're young and think you're hot shit, and there's some reason to believe you are, you can go far, very quickly."

When I think back at my time prior to going to University, I really did think this way. And I had reason to. Even during my time at University, that feeling never escaped me.

Once I entered full-time employment (almost by accident. I had started my own limited company at this point), my attitude changed completely. I was surrounded by so many people so unbelievably more clever than me, I was humbled. It wasn't just their abilities, but their "maturity".

Now I cringe to think of my attitude as little as 5 years ago. And I think I have reason to. Where I used to take pride in "fixing your 6-month problem in 4 days", I now realise I failed on a lot of aspects. I am now much more focused on doing things right. I focus on listening and understanding, on being tolerant and empathetic. I measure my work in quality, maintainability, measurable evidence. Every day I try my hardest to learn and to be a pioneer.

I do think this is a positive improvement. But when I come across an article like this one, and recall my youthful naivety and enthusiasm, I do worry if I haven't perhaps lost something more important.

ramblerman• 14 years ago

Reminds me of this bit from "Zen and the art of archery"

----

Among swordmasters, on the basis of their own and their pupils' experience, it is taken as proved that the beginner, however strong and pugnacious he is, and however courageous and fearless he may be at the outset, loses not only his lack of self consciousness, but his self confidence, as soon as he starts taking lessons.

He gets to know all the technical possibilities by which his life may be endangered in combat, and although he soon becomes capable of straining his attention to the utmost, of keeping a sharp watch on his opponent, Of parrying his thrusts correctly and making effective lunges, he is really worse off than before, when, half in jest and half in earnest, he struck about him at random under the inspiration of the moment and as the joy of battle suggested.

He is now forced to admit that he is at the mercy of everyone who is stronger, more nimble and more practised than he.

bluedanieru• 14 years ago

On a related note, the more I would play Smash Brothers, the worse off I would be against people who had never played before and just picked up the controller and smashed buttons.

1123581321• 14 years ago

In all fields this is a middle period before true mastery. Eventually the pupil will respond automatically to these threats and the confidence will return. The fight actually seems to slow down as well. And again, this isn't just in martial arts and athletics.

You say this came from an essay on Zen. I haven't read it, but I will defend the western Aristotelian ideal of mastering the practical knowledge, the "knowledge how" of any activity, including the universal activity of living virtuously, over Zen.

dpiers2• 14 years ago

| when I come across an article like this one, and recall my youthful naivety and enthusiasm, I do worry if I haven't perhaps lost something more important.

A very skilled young carpenter spends 8 hours making a table, which is a perfectly sound and functional, and is proud of his work.

A very skilled master carpenter spends 250 hours making a table, which is one of the finest ever crafted, and is proud of his work.

Someone tasks both carpenters with creating a table in 10 hours. The first carpenter does so and tells them it is the finest table he has ever made. The second carpenter does so and tells them it was the best he could do in only 10 hours.

Which table do you believe will be of higher quality? Has the second carpenter "lost something more important" along the way?

dwiel• 14 years ago

The skilled carpenter may make the highest 'quality' table, the young one may make a more interesting or novel one.

noonespecial• 14 years ago

To bring this into the startup world:

The master shrugs and says "It can't be done" and so doesn't even try.

The young carpenter slaps together something ugly with only three legs that barely stands, but since its the only table available, everyone balances their stuff on it anyway.

This seems like a select spot to insert some distinct SQL jokes... but I think I'll just drop it.

elliottkember• 14 years ago

I think this is a terrible analogy and doesn't admit the possibility that the master is able to build both kinds of tables - and that this is why he's the master. In 10 hours he can probably still produce a sturdy, simple table just like he used to. He now has the skill to take the craft to a new level.

Tyrant505• 14 years ago

Wize words. Of course you are fortunate enough to work with such people!

nerdfiles22• 14 years ago

This is exactly what I'm talking about.

You're overriding my dyslexic fonts with your inappropriate inline style just like how most developers (Facebook, Reddit, and a whole laundry list of others) fail to observe relative font-sizes or the good-sense settings of the browser[1] .

Now what am I supposed to do? I'm ALREADY using Stylish WITH "!important"; just imagine how systematic this problem is[2]. And yet the only response I typically get whenever I bring up this issue is that some know-it-all thinks I don't know how to customize my browser or whatever else. Or snide comments that such-and-such dyslexic font is "shit" or "ugly." Then I lose all of my street cred when I'm the one being mindful of accessibility (even if it is at the cost of garden variety aesthetic choices in the world of Helvetinauts).

Please, red flag me for irrelevance; I've taken this kind of flack before[3]. But I am getting absolutely sick of this. Stop overriding good design choices with bad ones.

_Why_ are you using inline styles? I'm going to keep shouting this until I get acknowledgment: no more fontwalls[4]!

I was in reading mode, and your poor development practices just ruined that. Now I need a bloody cigarette.

[1] http://www.w3.org/QA/Tips/font-size

[2] http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/13/opinion/the-reality-of-dys...

[3] http://www.reddit.com/r/css/comments/15q12g/youre_about_to_s...

[4] http://webjournal.nerdfiles.net/no-more-fontwalls/

crazygringo2• 14 years ago

Wait, since when are inline styles a poor development practice? Obviously they're a bad choice for large sites, but for a simple webpage (like a blog) that never needs to be extended and doesn't have repeating elements with lots of formatting, it seems to be a justifiable choice. For blog post content, especially.

Is "!important" in your custom stylesheet not overriding it? It's supposed to, what is the technical problem?

Also, what are fontwalls? You link to a paragraph with a typeface that is exceedingly difficult to read (is that the point?), and then the rest appears to be in hieroglyphics.

nerdfiles22• 14 years ago

???

1. Code bloat: "font-family: Crimson Text; font-size: 20px; font-weight: 400; line-height: 135%;" appears 9 times. For the same reason in the CSS world we're trying to eliminate unnecessary and unwieldy div-itis and non-semantic classes. It's about reducing footprint: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-BX4N8egEc. If you cannot see the logical next step that each of his Web pages may be doing the exact same thing, and thus his entire site; and further he might be using a plugin or theme that perpetuates this bad practice... if you cannot see that, then fair. But those are the kinds of problems I reflect on in my studies.

2. I'm not even sure what you're getting at with your second question. I wouldn't be posting this if my "!important" worked. If anything, Stylish may not benefit from the well-noted point that !important overrides inline styles. If that's the case: fascinating new problem we've discovered here. I am overriding paragraph elements with "!important"; that is the fact of the situation. Is there a technical problem? Perhaps.

3. Fontwalls are situations like this: a dyslexic reader is incapable of reading the content in place because the typesetting makes it inaccessible. So, like with your criticism of my typesetting on my Website: the OP has used "a typeface that is exceedingly difficult to read."

antijingoist• 14 years ago

WAT? Inline styles are always a poor development practice (one that I'm kinda guilty of... dang it).

You are supposed to separate the design from the structure from any logic.

rimantas• 14 years ago

  > Wait, since when are inline styles a poor development
  > practice?

Since always. Well, to be more precise, since <font> had fallen out of style, and separating your content and styling became a best practice.

mmastrac3• 14 years ago

No matter what point you are trying to make, your post here comes across as random, rant-y and somewhat nonsensical. I tried going through your supporting links to understand your point, but I still don't quite understand your concept of a "fontwall". I think that you mean that content is inaccessible to you because you can't apply your dyslexic fonts to content which has overridden it, but that's just my guess.

If you want people to listen and understand what you are trying to say, you might want to take a breather and start writing more constructively.

I can completely understand where you are coming from, but you really need to adjust your tone and message if you want to convince people.

nerdfiles22• 14 years ago

Quot capita tot sensus.

How is it that you merely "think" you've got it, but in your own words immediately after admitting that, you demonstrate quite clearly that you actually did in fact understand?

If you want to make friends, that's your prerogative. You were informed, and you demonstrate that you got my point. I don't care for your etiquette or aesthetics of communication.

[Added:] I see no lack of understanding of my point here, but only disagreeing opinion on what counts as an acceptable font, which is question begging, and factual inaccuracies.

And I want you to understand that this angers me. That is part of my point: I am angry, and yes, it is a rant. It's not clear to me how that is relevant or even a criticism. I am mad about this. I want that to be understood and clear. If you immediately picked up on my "rant-y" style, then I have succeeded at doing what it is I set out to do. At the same time, phrases like "absolutely sick," I am quite sure, tipped you off, and such phrases will tip most readers off. I honestly do not feel the need to add the disclaimer: "this is a rant." Most ranters don't, who are truly ranting, rather than being critical.

If what you mean to suggest is that rants exclude or prevent the flow of information, then as demonstrated by the numerous replies here, information was not impeded and critical dialogue is sitting along side and emotional/personal issue. I personally think it asks too much of one to set aside how they personally are affected, given the nature and gravity of the situation being mentioned (i.e., the scope and unwitting lack of sensitivity to dyslexia sufferers).

I have provided my arguments and points. And I am mad. It is quite clear to me that most of you are perfectly processing both of those informative gestures.

thorum3• 14 years ago

Have you considered using Readability? It wouldn't be difficult to get it to use your preferred font.

nerdfiles22• 14 years ago

Why are you suggesting software you don't even know the feature set of? Your second statement is factually incorrect.

Yes, I use Readability. What does "preferred font" mean to you? The aforementioned software allows for a fixed set of fonts that correspond to color themes.

xd• 14 years ago

"This is when depression sets in. All of a sudden you see that you are not all-powerful, you can't handle everything the world throws at you."

nerdfiles22• 14 years ago

Yeah, I realized the coincidence after his Web page loaded and I was immediately given a headache by yet another serif font.

It kind of does feel like the world is throwing "everything" at you when all the books are rendered in fonts that give you headaches. All the Websites too. And the Newspapers.

That personal point aside. Inline styles are well known bad practice. It's a shock to me that this is being argued on Hacker News.

nerdfiles22• 14 years ago

"One does not have to be evil to be hated. In fact, it’s often the case that one is hated precisely because one is trying to do right by one’s own convictions. It is far too easy to be liked, one merely has to be accommodating and hold no strong convictions. Then one will gravitate towards the centre and settle into the average. That cannot be your role. There are a great many bad people in the world, and if you are not offending them, you must be bad yourself. Popularity is a sure sign that you are doing something wrong." --http://halfhalf.posterous.com/dont-work-be-hated-love-someon...

ElliotH• 14 years ago

You incorrectly assume malice on the part of the blog author. Frustration makes it easy to see the world as people who are for your position and others who are against your position. In this situation it seems far more likely that the author is unaware that his site works badly with your setup.

The quote is about making your cause succeed. Here you could have won by sending an email. Instead you shouted at people on HN. Nobody learned anything about making the internet better for you. Maybe your goal is just to let people know that this makes you angry, you succeeded. Well done. But you didn't follow through with why they should care, so no change is effected.

Its good to be hated by those who hate your just cause. Maybe its less good to be hated by those who are simply ignorant of it?

I'd say you missed the point of the quote entirely.

cschmidt2• 14 years ago

You went to a web page that you wanted to read, and it didn't let you override the font choice as it should have for good accessibility. You got mad.

I'd suggest a different approach. Take a deep breath, have that cigarette you need.

I'm might start out by sending a polite comment or email to Dave. "I was wanting to read your post, but your pages don't do this...."

Dave actually wrote the whole stack of software that manages his writing. Some of it is quite amazing, and some of it is probably older than you are, so it might have some issues ;-). He is actually someone who could fix valid problems. He's a good guy. So treat him that way. Be polite. You can see your current "get mad" approach isn't getting a good reception here, or probably anywhere else. If you want to change the world, you need to learn to communicate, not shout.

nerdfiles22• 14 years ago

I'm going to post this again, because I'm simply getting fed up with well-intentioned advice that tries to pass in subtly some kind of manifest authority (ageism, expertise, moral high ground):

"One does not have to be evil to be hated. In fact, it’s often the case that one is hated precisely because one is trying to do right by one’s own convictions. It is far too easy to be liked, one merely has to be accommodating and hold no strong convictions. Then one will gravitate towards the centre and settle into the average. That cannot be your role. There are a great many bad people in the world, and if you are not offending them, you must be bad yourself. Popularity is a sure sign that you are doing something wrong." -- http://halfhalf.posterous.com/dont-work-be-hated-love-someon...

What makes you right and that ^ wrong? Given that you are trying to guide me, for some reason, I think this is an absolutely fair question. Why follow your advice and not Adrian Tan's? I'd absolutely love to understand where you are coming from since what I have quoted, and then twice, outright contradicts what you are saying.

And it actually fits well within the framework of this entire thread, even if it does not get my dyslexic-accessibility agenda further.

Further, it might be amazing software. But that is an opinion. Plone is amazing software, but I wouldn't work in it. Diazo is amazing software, I wouldn't work in it. Drupal is amazing; wouldn't work in it. Joomla, etc., etc., etc.

I know things can be fixed. My concern is right now, what are the consequences of architectural decisions like his software? -- In my mind, immediately: larger Web footprint, inaccessible to dyslexics, more costly (even if it is tiny, but that is relative total footprint).

I'm not calling you names or insulting your intelligence. I'm being critical, and expressing frustration in an intimate way. The all caps are a rare thing, but as I said: I am mad. I want you to know that. So please stop re-iterating that it is not "effective." I don't think anyone here has the background in sociology or communications to really support their arguments on that matter. Just one programmers' opinion to another.

simoncion2• 14 years ago

This changes everything on that scripting.com page to Comic Sans for me:

  * { font-family: "Comic Sans MS" !important; }

I'm using Stylish 1.0 on Chrome 23.0.blahblah and 1.3.something in Firefox 18. (Amusingly, that line causes the MENUS in Firefox to be rendered in Comic Sans!)

Are you sure that your CSS override is correctly worded? Are you using a different version of Stylish?

nerdfiles22• 14 years ago

Don't want to change everything. And my intuition about selectors tells me that catch-all selectors are bad.

My selector works on just about every other site. I assume most of them do not have inline styles on every paragraph.

ieze• 14 years ago

I'd be interested to read how your own views of people contrast with the ideas in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Win_Friends_and_Influen...

qwerta• 14 years ago

Just disable page font styles completely. I had white tahoma on dark background since 1999.

nerdfiles22• 14 years ago

Give. I bow out.

With classes like "divOutlineItem" and inline CSS padding, not one of you bothers to note that. It's like I'm wasting by bloody time learning best practices only to bring them back to developers who just do not seem to care. And I'm supposed to yield to claims of "amazing software" and age-authority.

I'm not even sure what to say anymore. You're absolutely right. I, as a Web Developer, for whatever that is worth, have no business being here in the Hacker News community.

Cheers.

maxerickson• 14 years ago

Your custom stylesheet doesn't have a rule for span elements.

nerdfiles22• 14 years ago

Right here.

tsahyt3• 14 years ago

This was a very good article to read. Very thoughtful. It does somewhat hit a nerve for me too. Ever since I started digging deeper into the complexity of computing I've felt a bit dumber every time I learned something new. It's just staggering how complex those things are. It somehow makes me, my knowledge, feel insignificant. I know my way around software design. I can definitely write some good code. I know some of the theoretical aspects of computer science. In theory, I should have a grasp of all this and I probably do. Somehow though, I feel as if there was just so much more to know that declaring myself as "good" at this feels wrong. I've come to terms, that the Dunning-Kruger effect is a powerful force. The more I learn, the more I realize how much there's left to learn.

btilly• 14 years ago

I can't read this without wondering to what extent it is a response to the death of Aaron Swartz. Particularly considering that Aaron's suicide brought http://scripting.com/2003/06/29.html#When:9:33:43PM back to the attention of a number of people.

In case you entirely missed this subtext, I recommend re-reading it, and seeing how well the glove fits on a possible perspective of Aaron's life.

charlieok• 14 years ago

...and things started off so well between them

http://scripting.com/2001/02/19.html

jhuni• 14 years ago

> The other thing we all can do, if we love the product of technical minds, is stop thinking it's magic. There is magic in computers, but the magic isn't in the programmer or the tech writer or the visionary -- it's in the whole thing. The miracle isn't any one person, rather it's that humanity can collaborate to create something much greater than any one of us.

If you consider the "whole thing" most computers still have proprietary programs put in place by profit-driven organizations to subjugate and control the users. That isn't magic its witchcraft. It would be a miracle if computer programs and all other forms of software were developed collaboratively rather then secretively.

dakimov2• 14 years ago

When I was a Junior Developer I though I was a genius and knew everything about programming itself, I was not even interested in improving my coding skills, because I thought they were perfect, now after 8+ years I view myself as a rather ignorant guy who can barely create working programs.

joshuacc• 14 years ago

"Even better, if there was an oldtimer around when the world is telling you you're a god and can do no wrong, to tell you that's bullshit, to kick you in the butt, in a friendly way, tell you you're a mortal human being, and you need to understand that life has its ups and downs"

I know that it's pretty fashionable to hate on religion, but this is something that religious wisdom literature and religious communities are often very good at providing.

ww520• 14 years ago

Funny thing. These days when I made a mistake, I kicked myself on my proverbial butt and said, "damn, that's stupid ROOKIE mistake. How could you miss that?"

hakaaaaak• 14 years ago

Here's my thing:

I've never been hot shit. The closest was the 90s when everyone who knew anything about programming or networking was the bomb, maybe followed by working at a startup for the first time and really digging it and feeling like I was the man because they ran on code I wrote.

Since then, I've gotten older. And increasingly more depressed about my job. I've changed workplaces and it doesn't help, if anything- it just changed the nature of it all. After burning out working crazy hours at startup company #2, I took a job that was way too easy. Fell into the trap and now I'm older, my mind doesn't work, and I'm back at a startup in higher stress.

I've not learned much really except that I don't like it.

marshray• 14 years ago

Writing computer programs is hard. Doing it for long hours, day in day out, is unnatural. Nevertheless, 'Software Engineer' is nearly always at near the top of those "best" careers listings. I'm not saying it shouldn't be, but don't expect non-programmer family and friends to understand.

It's important to recognize the signs of burnout and acknowledge it before you get to the point where you never want to touch a computer again.

We expect too much of geeks

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