Bad Security at Evite

http://fnord1.blog.ca/2008/06/30/bad-security-at-evite-4382575/

by ardell • 17 years ago

13 22 17 years ago

fnord1.blog.ca

swombat• 17 years ago

Didn't we have this discussion about password hashing already a few weeks ago?

If someone's snooping on your email, I think you've got bigger problems than a lost password, tbh.

As for hashing, again, if someone can get on the server and download the whole database, you've got bigger problems than password hashing.

I'm not saying this is a good practice, but I just don't think it's as big a problem as this guy is making it out.

Also, there's a balance between security and usability. For some kinds of users, not being able to tell them their password is actually a problem. Sites that are able to do that will have a competitive edge in getting those users. So the question is one of balance between usability and security, not just one of security.

drm2372• 17 years ago

I disagree that not being able to tell someone their password is a usability problem. Having a password reset system is just as usable and significantly more secure than having to store passwords in plain text.

And both of your arguments about having bigger problems are fundamentally flawed. Sure, if someone does get your db, you have a big problem, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't take precautions so that if it somehow happens they can't read it like a book. It's kind of like you're saying cars shouldn't have airbags because it's harder to honk the horn and if you do get in an accident, you've got bigger problems.

And someone snooping on your email is as easy as you accessing your webmail on an unencrypted wifi connection. Do you think everyone in the world makes sure they use the ssl version of their webmail in public? Because if not, sniffing packets is trivially easy.

My point is that the situations you mentioned only become bigger problems when you make no effort to protect these things.

wallflower• 17 years ago

> Do you think everyone in the world makes sure they use the ssl version of their webmail in public?

I know techies who don't use GMail who don't bother to explicitly using https://mail.google.com - I don't know why.

agotterer• 17 years ago

I prefer 1 way hashed passwords. But why assume they are doing it in plain text? Why not a two way encryption?

tptacek4• 17 years ago

It's a really big problem.

If you lose your whole database to an attacker, you have a big problem.

If you lose your whole database to an attacker, and you stored recoverable passwords in it, everyone has a big problem.

There'd be something to debate here if fixing this problem wasn't 5-10 lines of code. But that's what it is. 5-10 lines of code to keep yourself from compromising tens of thousands of (email, password) pairs. There is no debate to have here.

laut• 17 years ago

I agree that storing passwords in plaintext is an anti pattern. But with a one-way-password-encryption setup you need a password resetting system, which is more than 5-10 lines of code.

fallentimes• 17 years ago

Use Anyvite.

http://anyvite.com

staunch• 17 years ago

Sending your password after signup doesn't necessarily mean they're storing it permanently.

myoung8• 17 years ago

And it doesn't mean they're storing it in cleartext either. For some reason I don't think he'd understand how virtual attributes work, though...

ardell• 17 years ago

You're absolutely correct, but in evite's case they are storing them permanently. That's actually the reason I posted this was that I forgot my password and requested a reset (~5 years after signup) and they sent it to me in plain text.

seiji• 17 years ago

Progressive postal-mailed me a letter with password on it when they sent my first insurance cards.

I think some health insurance sites do the same thing.

lacker• 17 years ago

Evite is willing to sacrifice security for usability. Which makes sense, because it doesn't really matter if someone hacks your Evite account.

carpo• 17 years ago

I don't think hacking the evite account is the problem. With many people using the same password across multiple accounts, getting their evite password may also be giving the password to countless other systems. So they are essentially sacrificing the security of their users, not just their own application.

paulgb2• 17 years ago

I agree that people do that, and that ideally a website would would not email someone their password for the simple reason that people do recycle passwords.

But, the onus here should really be on the user. If they are careless enough to use the same password for everything, they are indicating that they are willing to trade some security for convenience. In my opinion, emailing users their password is just another security/convenience trade-off. I'd be upset to get my password sent in plantext from my bank, but not an invite website.

Bad Security at Evite

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