Valve boss says living room Steam PCs coming with Linux support

http://www.shacknews.com/article/76984/valve-boss-says-living-room-steam-pcs-linux-support

by gregpurtell • 14 years ago

173 45 14 years ago

nivloc• 14 years ago

Previous discussion: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4895372

w1ntermute3• 14 years ago

This is going to have a very interesting effect on the console market if it becomes reality. For one, it'll destroy the used games market. But also, it will make the impulse purchase of games much easier, and it'll drastically reduce the aging process for games. No longer will a game's sales be tied to shelf space. The focus on sales right after a game has been released will decrease, which I think is a good thing in the long run.

I think that with the shift of the Wii and Wii U towards the casual gaming market, there's definitely space for a third competitor in the "serious" gaming market. It'll be interesting to see how this actually manifests itself.

thefreeman• 14 years ago

Steam as a platform has done amazing things for gaming and independent developers. ~70% of the revenue from steam games goes to the developers. This was absolutely unheard of in the past.

edit: I was totally wrong about trading used games. My bad.

w1ntermute3• 14 years ago

> Steam games are all digitally tied to your account, and can be traded / exchanged between accounts just like a physical disc.

Huh?

https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=6748-ETS...

> Does Steam Trading mean I can sell my used games?

> No, only games that have been bought as a gift, and thus have never been played, can be traded. Once the Steam Gift is opened and added to your game library, you won’t be able to trade it again.

cduser• 14 years ago

> ~70% of the revenue from steam games goes to the developers

So, when Black Ops II made a billion dollars (http://www.ign.com/videos/2012/12/05/news-black-ops-2-grosse...), steam made ~430 million? That's huge!

CJefferson2• 14 years ago

Steam is terrible for most indie developers compared to android, iOS, windows store or Xbox (if we include indie games). All of these charge for entry, but only steam makes it a lottery with terribly bad odds (via greenlight)

breckinloggins2• 14 years ago

What I think would help is some set of standards that would let people create "PC Consoles". On the one hand, these are "no apology" consoles that absolutely appeal to the hardcore gamer that would otherwise use a PC. On the other hand, you ought to be able to pick one up at Target and not need to be a hardcore system builder to use it.

So I'm thinking someone starts a "PC Console Consortium" that does the following:

- Come up with a good name for the specs (similar to the old 3DO idea or the "THX" certification. It needs to have a marketable name.)

- Establish the proper bylaws and rules for the standardization process, including overall version levels, RFC-type specifications, etc.

- Come up with specs and reference designs / hardware for:

* Form factor of mother board

* Minimum number and preferred placement of ports, indicators, controls, and drive bays (if any)

* Minimum feature set (e.g. WiFi, DirectX 10, etc.)

* Standard OS image details and reference image (hopefully Linux)

* Living Room interface (Steam Big Picture mode should conform by fiat, we need those games)

* Reference controller designs and interface (should also allow use of XBox and PS3 controllers)

* etc

The way I see it, it should be possible to have the convenience of a console with the upgradability of a PC.

Lastly - and it's so important I put this separately - we need a way to take the "fiddle factor" out of PC games. Gamers shouldn't have to tweak anything when running on a spec-compliant system. They can if they want to, but it should be totally unnecessary for 95% of gamers.

To do this, I propose we standardize on some way to exactly report the system configuration. I'm thinking something like the Windows 7 scoring system. The idea is that the online stores will know ahead of time whether a game could even be played on your system. Also, when games run, they should automatically configure themselves with the optimum settings and resolution for your system (and TV or other display device).

Put simply, the "big picture vision" here is pretty simple: it's a box that looks and acts a lot like the XBox 360. The interface is just as simple. There are just as many features. The games run and play without headache. Controllers are just as nice (no more $10 "PC gamepads"). The entire experience looks like a console (no "seeing Linux or Windows boot first"). It's branded like a console. It's purchased like a console.

BUT...

It's buildable, upgradable (optionally depending on manufacturer), and "tinkerable" just like a PC. You do so at your own risk, of course, but the standard should be designed with this in mind.

EDIT:

Here's an idea that would be far in the future but would be cool. "GCPC" specs could include a new type of GPU interface. It would still be standard PCIe with power, but it would NOT include interface headers. Instead, standard video ports would be included in the motherboard standard (HDMI + Thunderbolt perhaps). If the chipset includes integrated graphics, it would use it. However, if a user plugs in one of these "headless GPUs", video signal would be directly routed to it. This would give the back of the console a cleaner, more standardized look while still allowing upgradability.

The back of the console should LOOK like the back of a console, NOT the back of a standard PC.

Another idea is to take a page from the upcoming TV apps playbook and standardize some kind of "feature card". This card would include processor, ram, and GPU in a known configuration and pinout. That way you can upgrade a lot of the "guts" with a simple card swap. I don't know if I'm too fond of this idea, but it's a possibility.

jiggy20114• 14 years ago

That sounds a lot like the current Steam experience of Steam under Windows 7. Windows already provides performance scores for your system.

The experience is roughly just Buy Game -> Download -> Play

bitsoda• 14 years ago

None of these are bad ideas per se, but this all seems overly ambitious for Valve's first foray into the console business. If anything, what they need is focus. And to me, that focus translates into building one Steam Box console with a single configuration that will play the majority of Steam games for the next four years. Making an upgradable console will lead to a design that is clunky. If you thought the PS3 and original XBox were large, an upgradable Steam Box console would end up looking like a PC midtower. Sure, you could always upgrade your HD in the current generation of consoles, but you couldn't slip in a new graphics card or solder on a new CPU.

I think Valve should embrace these constraints and deliver what (I think) most gamers would want: the ability to play their ever-increasing Steam Catalog on their televisions with a controller that doesn't suck, in a form factor that will blend in with my entertainment unit furniture, and with a 4-5 year window where most Steam games will play.

breckinloggins2• 14 years ago

To be clear, I'm suggesting that someone other than Valve do this. Perhaps an independent organization. Valve could be a member.

emehrkay• 14 years ago

So how Microsoft defines minimal specs for manufactures to follow if they want to use Windows Phone? Valve would simply provide the OS in your example right?

CJefferson2• 14 years ago

The problem with this is once users get something sold as a console, they will expect it to act like one. Yet, you still get games on steam which either don't work, or work very poorly, on ATI instead of nvidia cards, or don't like high resolutions, or are unexpectidly jerky on AMD processors for some reason.

Trying to create a "standardised PC" level, and then expecting games to run smoothly on it, seems like a dangerous game to try to play. PC users are willing to cope with having to upgrade their machine because their X is of poor quality. Console owners are absolutely not.

The only solution I can see to this, which is what I imagine valve is doing, is to exactly fix all components.

Shorel2• 14 years ago

And logitech dual-standard controllers.

That means to have both DirectInput and XInput support.

In fact, I still think the now 'deprecated' DirectInput is far superior to XInput in almost every way (more controllers per computer, more axis, more features), except may be sales in the last few years.

diminish• 14 years ago

Valve may repeat a parallel for 'Android' in 'Gaming'. Make a Linux-based OS layer, with standardized interface to TV, WIFI, gaming controllers and GPU. Produce 'Nexus' lines but also allow others to produce. Make sure you have a market called Steam Play Store but also allow others to implement their own stores.

mtgx• 14 years ago

Google had the opportunity to try that ever since they launched Google TV 2 years ago. Make Android/Google TV a "console platform", and make $100-$150 devices kind of like OUYA, but allow many manufacturers to build them, and crowd the market with them.

But they totally blew it on that one, because now it's probably too late to start that, especially considering how little Google cares about making Android a strong gaming platform (hint: they probably wouldn't even try to get game developers to write games for this "platform". They would just wait and see).

But yeah, if Valve does that, it would be great for Linux gaming, and OpenGL gaming in general.

rymith• 14 years ago

I get the new iMac this week, and I'm taking my current windows machine and turning it into a homebrew Steambox tomorrow. I'm using an Ikea dresser thing http://www.ikea.com/ca/en/catalog/products/90179927/#/601799... as the box (with the top drawer for the console games), though I'm a little concerned with the airflow... The current case is probably overkill with the 6 fans, but I can only cut out two holes in the drawer before I'm worried about loosing structural integrity, it's particle board after all. Add the power supply and drive mounts (I want both windows 7 and Linux), and there isn't any more space. Oh well, I guess I'll find out soon enough. As much as I love the hacking, it would be nice to have something prebuilt so I'm not completely screwed if I turn this into a smokebox instead of a steambox.

Profess2• 14 years ago

A cool idea might be putting a push/pull fan setup for the drawers themselves. Cut 4x12cm holes in the top 2 on either sides, get grills and mount them underneath. You might have to cut out the drawer it's self to open and close but the grills will add a cool look and maybe even mount the fan control knobs somewhere so you can make adjustments and even turn on/off LEDs mounted on the fan it's self. Put the system in the drawer without a case of any kind, particle board doesn't conduct but you could just get a non conductive mat to put under it.

Good luck!

rektide• 14 years ago

Super interested to see whether they attempt to support DirectX games or no!

ergo143• 14 years ago

Simply no - there is no option to do that unless they use windows.

AntiRush• 14 years ago

Wine has a pretty good DirectX to OpenGL translation layer. It could be leveraged to provide this. Many games on Steam run quite well on top of Wine, and some of the OSX games available on Steam already use it.

mburshteyn2• 14 years ago

I've been dying for something like this. Since switching to Apple laptops, I can do nothing but listen wistfully as my friends talk about how much they love Steam. The screenshots of Skyrim I see in online reviews don't look anything like the game I play on my Xbox360.

The problem is, I can't imagine playing video games on any screen but a TV or in any setting but the couch. I could probably build a PC box and hook it up to the TV on my own, but I'd much rather just buy something ready to go out of the box. A console with current hardware and a PC-like gaming experience is just what the doctor ordered!

jiggy20114• 14 years ago

Can't you dual boot Windows on your mac, plug a 360 controller in via USB and dvi/hdmi out to the TV?

mburshteyn2• 14 years ago

So many cords and things to install. I've become really lazy when it comes to games. Part of me just wants to play a game without putting in work to do so.

ceras• 14 years ago

I think HN and Reddit really underestimate just how much of a bother many of us find hooking things up like that. This sounds like an amazing idea to me too: I am definitely a target consumer, and I by no means lack tech saviness.

pixie_• 14 years ago

Linux as a gaming platform, especially for Valve is genius. There of tons of PC games that with a bit of porting (and adding controller support) can be re-released and re-sold to the console gamers. And as we all know console gamers spend a lot more $$$ than PC gamers. And Valve is going to be in the middle of it all, genius.

eropple• 14 years ago

There of tons of PC games that with a bit of porting (and adding controller support) can be re-released and re-sold to the console gamers.

This isn't really true, either on the porting end or the sell-to-console-gamers end. Porting most PC games to Linux is a nontrivial undertaking (because, yeah, most big developers still use Direct3D and rewrite for the PS3 using PSGL--the PS3 gets half-assed and it usually shows).

Then you have to take into account the nearly-guaranteed hardware problem: for it to be competitive with the next generation of consoles it's going to end up specced around or worse than the XBox Next or the PS4 (and we already know what those look like.

JulianK• 14 years ago

While I understand the desire to have an upgradable PC, as a developer the single greatest benefit of a console is a fixed target. If it runs on this machine, then it runs on all the machines.

From a user's perspective this means I can easily tell if something will run or not. No worrying about whether I have enough cores, enough pixel shader units or simply enough memory. It Just Works. That's the console promise.

I can't overstate how important this is for both the developer and the consumer. Not all developers can afford to have QA departments to test on every configuration out there and, believe me, there are a lot of OS/GPU/driver/memory configurations floating about.

I think the Apple/Nexus model that says "this is the new device this year" is a workable tradeoff. Then you can say: Only SteamBox 2013 and up are supported. We no longer support the 2012/older models.

However, allowing the user to upgrade their machine only helps the technically proficient and hurts the small developer and less technically inclined users that a console is usually targeted at.

nemo1618• 14 years ago

An upgradable machine would allow proficient users to simply improve their current system rather than buying "this year's new device." It would be nice to have both options available. You still don't have to support older hardware, and savvy users don't have to pay extra for a whole new system.

Meanwhile, if you can't afford either upgrade, it should still be possible to play most games, albeit at a reduced framerate. The same could never be said for a traditional console.

Corrado• 14 years ago

An upgradable machine also allows a "power" user to upgrade their machine way beyond the original specs in order to give them an unfair advantage in online gaming. I picture someone with a monster 24 CPU/256GB RAM box playing TF2 at 200fps pummeling me ever harder than they do today. :(

However, I like the idea of a Valve console. They've done so much right in the world of gaming that I'd like to see how else they can shake it up. :)

marshray• 14 years ago

It will be interesting to see what they do about cheating in the highly competitive online multiplayer games. This is one of those rare situations (perhaps the only one) where open systems tends to make the end user experience worse.

freehunter• 14 years ago

Valve already has VAC (Valve Anti-Cheat) that works reasonably well.

toksaitov• 14 years ago

I hope this will get another great push for OpenGL as it was with mobile and web.

Valve boss says living room Steam PCs coming with Linux support

Related Stories