Five languages in seven lines, or how not to do web development

http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=ddsmkn6m_46j7qxfct4

by siong1987 • 17 years ago

42 22 17 years ago

docs.google.com

jcl2• 17 years ago

Truth be told, it's not too bad considering all it does. Each language is being used for its strengths.

Programming at that level requires HTML and Javascript. Python is integrated as part of Mako; calling them separate languages is valid but questionable. (Given that the author is maximizing the number of languages, I'm a little surprised jQuery wasn't included in the list.)

jwilliams2• 17 years ago

Yeah I don't see the beef either - what is the counterpoint "ideal" way of doing it?

One language? Because you'd have to select HTML by default... And I'm guessing that might not make for the best user experience.

Also surprised they didn't include (implied) CSS.

jdminhbg• 17 years ago

I think you need to at least move the JS out and write it unobtrusively. Sticking 'onClicks' all over the place inside a templating language is a recipe for spaghetti.

cake• 17 years ago

I wouldn't call jQuery a language. jQuery is JavaScript.

axod3• 17 years ago

library/frameworky thing. It's not javascript though. Try getting help with a jQuery question in #javascript...

jcl2• 17 years ago

jQuery is JavaScript in approximately the same way CLOS is Common Lisp. Sure, jQuery is implemented in and uses JavaScript, but idiomatic jQuery differs enough from idiomatic JavaScript that it might be considered another language.

...And, if that handwaving fails to convince you, jQuery's selector string format is at least as much a language as the pager formatting string that merits its own language in the article. :)

gaika• 17 years ago

Bug in parsing: line 2 is mostly javascript, not mako.

bhiggins• 17 years ago

yikes, missing two languages. everyone knows number of lines should equal number of languages.

tlrobinson• 17 years ago

Technically the first 3 lines have all five languages.

psadauskas• 17 years ago

So in Rails best-practices, you'd still have 3 "languages", they'd just be spread around in 3 files.

I'm a Haml fan, so I'd have a view template like:

  = paginate(@employees)

  %ul
    - @employees.each do |employee|
      %li
        = employee.first_name
        = employee.last_name

and then a helper to fill out the "paginate", or some plugin to handle it for me, and finally an unobtrusive js file.

So I get 3 languages. The only real WTF I see here is the "onClick", and for an example in some documentation about a framework, its forgivable. Could also be broken up into separate files, because the pagination part is a bit complex for a view. Again, though, its a documentation example, on the paginator helper, no less.

s3graham• 17 years ago

I think "$('#my-page-area')" is #6 actually (doing a CSS-style selector probably via jQuery or something)

I'm not sure that it's "how not to do web development", but it's certainly "this is common: what's a better way?".

mcav• 17 years ago

Nothing wrong with this example. Would you rather see XSLT? Really?

jrockway• 17 years ago

There are other ways to build HTML without templating. Take a look at Template::Refine, for example:

http://search.cpan.org/~jrockway/Template-Refine-0.02/lib/Te...

(Those are two different examples, which is unclear due to news.yc's URL truncation.)

thomasfl• 17 years ago

Even when using serverside javascript, you still end up with at least 4 languages; javascript, html, css and occasional sql queries.

Rails is actually not that bad, letting you use ruby for everything from javascript and html templates to sql queries and configuration. The future is languages that can be tweaked to express anything like lisp, ruby, python, groovy and one day also javascript.

axod3• 17 years ago

What's even more worrying is people posting here defending it. It's plain ugly.

Call me old fashioned, but I'm pretty much a one language per file guy.

herval• 17 years ago

I'm curious to know how do you do web development. Mind sharing?

biohacker42• 17 years ago

Python, JavaScript and HTML puts you at 3 and that's the least you need for web development.

Or are you supposed to do nothing but back end in Python, or just HTML front ends?

datico• 17 years ago

The point as I see it, normally one thinks of programming in "a" language, not 5-7 at once! Just imagine trying to rewrite this paragraph in multiple foreign languages...let's see, nouns in Japanese, verbs in French, adjectives in Russian, and the remainder in Taglish? Illustrates just how demanding web development is. And consider, not only are there best practices to follow for each real language, the conclusion reveals there must be implicit best practices (or at least opinions) for mixing them as well.

Five languages in seven lines, or how not to do web development

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