Iran in space

http://therealamirtaheri.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/keep-your-eyes-in-sky-iran-in-space.html

by user9756 • 14 years ago

57 54 14 years ago

therealamirtaheri.blogspot.co.uk

daeken• 14 years ago

I'm so glad to see Iran doing this. Not because I have any particular affinity for Iran, but because the technology will improve as competition increases and more nations/companies take steps into space.

This may be a big step for Iran, but it's an even bigger one for the human race as a whole.

seivan• 14 years ago

I've seen this too often to ignore, but I have to ask, and I am sorry if it comes across a bit rude. It's just a curios question.

Do you mean specie (as opposed as to what you stated: 'race')?

jeremyswank• 14 years ago

couple of points:

in english usage 'human race' generally equates to 'human species'

the singular is 'species' with an 's'. if you look it up you will find that 'specie' means something quite different (it has to do with money).

tjmc• 14 years ago

Are you glad to see North Korea develop its "space program" too? Yes, I know this is HN where discussions about politics are discouraged, but in this case it's bordering on farcical to ignore it.

I have a lecturer in fluid mechanics who used to be an engineer on the Indian space program. He interchangeably uses the terms "satellite" and "warhead" when discussing the work he used to do.

It may well be that Iran wants to develop orbital launch capability for launching satellites and people into space. But assuming that's the only reason is a little naive.

eternauta3k2• 14 years ago

I like the occasional reminder that Iran has never started a war. And it won't unless it plans to be obliterated, so don't worry about that.

arethuza3• 14 years ago

I find this all a bit sad - just like the Cold War, ever step taken by each player looks completely rational from their perspective, but will we still end up in a position that is utter lunacy.

dsl• 14 years ago

Regardless of your views on the sanctions themselves, this blog post illustrates how effective the US blockade of technology to Iran really is. The Iranian space program is just starting to reach the level of sophistication of hobbyists in the western world.

The post however fails to mention Iran has actually launched a total of 5 satellites, the first two being joint launches with Russia and China.

guard-of-terra3• 14 years ago

You are plain wrong. Any space program takes years and starts with satellite launches. Look at the Chinese program for example. There is no reason to think US blockade somehow harmed the progress of the program there. And it does not matter much since USSR is known to launch anything they wanted before the modern globalized economics that made blockades possible even existed.

Your comment about hobbysts is plain misleading to. How many hobbysts launch pets into suborbital and orbital flights and get those back in one piece? How many hobbysts can launch a satellite, anyway? Using their own rocket? You can pimp SpaceX to defend your misleading statement, but they are not in any sense hobbysts and their work would not be possible without NASA and it took them long years anyway.

So please stop disregarding other people's achivements. This is just lame.

tomjen3• 14 years ago

No but Copenhagen Suborbitals are hobbiests. And they expect to launch a suborbital rocket with a human onboard.

And their combined budget is properly less than what NASA use on toilets.

ucee0543• 14 years ago

No, I think the Iranian space program has always been much lower priority than the Iranian demand for healthcare.

What really demonstrates how effective the US blockade of technology to Iran really is is all the innocent Iranian civilian cancer patients who can't get the medicines they need to keep them alive.

batgaijin• 14 years ago

If Iran is capable of technological progress at this rate, how did Pakistan get a nuke before Iran?

guard-of-terra3• 14 years ago

Is it because Pakistan needed it badly a few decades before Iran felt any need?

sagarun• 14 years ago

The Chinese gave them one!

eternauta3k2• 14 years ago

Who told you Iran is developing a nuke?

_b8r0• 14 years ago

Pakistan was originally signed up to a civilian programme, but after war with India and Indian nuclear testing decided they needed nuclear weapons following a predominently second strike doctrine. However, Pakistan's position is that in the event of invasion they will respond immediately with nuclear weapons[1].

They received substantial help from the Chinese, and had nuclear reactors at the time the programme started in the 70s (under the codename Project 706[2]). They're not signed up to the NPT or CTBT either (choosing to sign neither until India do).

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan_and_weapons_of_mass_de...

[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project-706

InclinedPlane• 14 years ago

Pakistan has operated nuclear reactors since the 1950s and they undertook a nuclear weapons development program starting in the 1970s and reaching fruition in the late 80s. They already had plentiful sources of weapons grade Plutonium and through what should properly be called espionage they gained access to advanced technologies in nuclear fuel reprocessing, Uranium isotope separation, and nuclear weapon design.

caf• 14 years ago

A new book has just been released on the history of Pakistan's nuclear program: Eating Grass: The Making of the Pakistani Bomb by Feroz Khan (http://www.sup.org/book.cgi?id=21098).

It bears pointing out that the decision to build a nuclear weapon is at least as much a political one as a technical one.

smegel• 14 years ago

China

benjlang3• 14 years ago

Great to hear. We in Israel are also planning on sending a person to the moon soon: http://www.spaceil.com Innovation in the Middle East is much needed.

dchichkov3• 14 years ago

I'm surprised, that you are glad to hear, that a country with relatively unstable government is making progress toward having ballistic missile capabilities. Actually scratch that. It is progress toward ICBMs, not just ballistic missiles.

Here's a reference to the current state of the program: http://iranprimer.usip.org/resource/irans-ballistic-missile-...

And a bit more recent update: http://www.iranwatch.org/wmd/wmd-iranmissileessay.htm

benjlang3• 14 years ago

You're right, that is worrisome but I highly doubt it will reach that point. The US and Israel will never allow that to happen.

If only the Iranian government cared about its people and making the world a better and more innovative place...

ucee0543• 14 years ago

a country with relatively unstable government is making progress toward having ballistic missile capabilities

Is unstable a euphemism for bad bad bad or do you actually know a damn thing about Iranian stability?

And who is Iran unstable relatively to? Congo? North Korea? Russia under Yeltsin?

anonymouz2• 14 years ago

Wait what? The project you link to attempts to send a small robotic spacecraft to the moon, not a person.

The project seems quite interesting, though it has a bit too much of a nationalistic angle for my taste (Their headline is "Sending our flag to the moon"... is that really the most important thing people see in the ability to send a probe to the moon?)

benjlang3• 14 years ago

Ah good point, it will still make Israel the 3rd country to land on the moon though, even if it's not a human.

amirex1112• 14 years ago

The reason that Iran has no nukes is by self choice. They have always wanted the Japan model, to reach the technological threshold of having nukes without physically building them. This they reached years ago.

cstross2• 14 years ago

Author of blog piece seems to be very confused about how staged rockets work, and appears to think that a two stage rocket is somehow inherently more efficient than a three stage rocket! Which is just plain wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multistage_rocket

What he might be getting is that, if Iran had stuck a third stage on top of a pre-existing two stage IRBM in order to put a tiny wee satellite into orbit, then it would imply that the rocket in question was borderline-capable and not really amenable to being upgraded further. But the Safir-2 is apparently a 2-stage rocket with the ability to reach orbital velocity, implying that by adding boosters or a third stage to it a much larger payload could be launched.

mistercow• 14 years ago

I was thinking that might be what he meant, but then he says this:

>While a three-stage rocket is simple and is limited on how much of a weight threshold it can lift, the more advanced two-stage can be expanded for larger weights.

The first part of that is, I'm pretty sure, the opposite of true. The second part is sort of true, but the "expansion" in question would be... adding a third stage. I think he heard the Geoffrey Forden quote and misunderstood the point, which is admittedly subtle.

I think what Forden meant was: "If they need three stages to do just this, then they'll never be able to use this to launch a human, because a four-stage rocket is completely beyond them. But if they can do this with only two stages, they could get a human to space with three stages."

cstross2• 14 years ago

Yup, that was my reading, too.

ChuckMcM• 14 years ago

"Confused" is probably not the correct word here, if this journalist is similar to western journalists then I would expect them not to have any idea how rockets work or even a passing knowledge of physics. Combine that with a language translation stage and well, accuracy is probably not high.

The book "Rocket Propulsion Elements" [1] which is pretty much everything known about rockets that isn't classified, is pretty dense for a reason. I certainly don't hold it against the journalists who are trying to do their job as best they can.

That said, because launching heavy things into space can also be used to launch heavy things around the globe and into other peoples territory, there are aspects of the technology that are closely watched. One of them is cryogenic turbo pumps. These are pumps which can pump a cryogenic fluid at high pressure and flow rates. Those are an essential part of the space puzzle because once you get a functional cryogenic rocket engine you can add additional engines and fuel at a relatively constant mass/payload ratio. And then that means if you have a payload of mass X, and an orbit of O (or sub-orbit if you're talking ICBM) you can build a delivery system to make that work. Of course other controlled technologies are guidance systems and launch 'racks'.

If Iran was looking for something more than a PR ploy I think they should host a middle east space conference with peer reviewed papers. To get to where SpaceX is, and where Iran wants to be, is rocket science but it is also achievable rocket development. Open discussion would lend an air of legitimacy to the research (today most westerners assume its simply a quest for missile technology) and probably advance their programs more effectively.

[1] http://www.amazon.com/Rocket-Propulsion-Elements-George-Sutt...

ucee0543• 14 years ago

When the author says the three stage rocket is simple, he is saying that that rocket is simple, not that three stages is simple.

The author's English is correct with the meaning but can be misread. He hasn't used English that can be unambiguously parsed, presumably because he is not a native English speaker - I assume he is a native Persian speaker.

The author is obviously saying that the rocket currently being deployed in two stages is more advanced than the rocket currently being deployed in three, which is why the former will be capable of more when it too is deployed in three stages.

You just chose to parse it the wrong way, and then call the author's writing just plain wrong.

nasir2• 14 years ago

It is interesting for me when reading the opinion of others about Iran. As a person who had lived inside and outside Iran long enough, I feel very sceptical about the content of the article. The author's statements are very similar to those of the government authorities where only certain facts are described regardless of the issues. I'm not an expert about space industry but since I am pretty sure that the article is exaggerating heavily about the advancements and they heavily rely on China and Russia. Also the author claims "the sanctions have, like many other local industries, pushed Iran to meet its needs locally and therefore advance quicker than possible if Iran had the easy option of importing everything it needed". Apparently he tries to portray that nothing had happened because of the sanctions but it is apparent that the sanctions has crippled the economy currently and the currency value has reduced by five time. The prices has tripled since 4 month ago and middle class society are getting poorer just because of the nuclear ambitions of the leaders.

I should also state that I don't believe Iran is making nuclear weapon nor can I deny it. I think western countries would've had the same policy even if no nuclear activity was there and some other excuse will be used in order to protect Israel. Western media have prepared people so well in case they need to take any action against Iran. Well, I hope that does not happen.

guard-of-terra3• 14 years ago

"The article is exaggerating heavily about the advancements and they heavily rely on China and Russia."

I remember how ten years ago you could read the same phrase about Chinese program, and now they are on the providing side already!

nasir2• 14 years ago

I don't deny they are making progress. But thats not as what you think it is!

antman• 14 years ago

"The prices has tripled since 4 month ago and middle class society are getting poorer just because of the nuclear ambitions of the leaders" The prices have increased because of the imposed sanctions. This is unrelated political pressure.

amirex1112• 14 years ago

Thanks user9756 for posting this!

Iran in space

Related Stories