How TeX made it to the iOS App Store - running on DOS, inside an emulator

http://vallettaventures.com/2012/08/27/tex-notebook/

by steeleduncan • 14 years ago

56 49 14 years ago

vallettaventures.com

NonEUCitizen• 14 years ago

they should replace MSDOS with FreeDOS ?

steeleduncan2• 14 years ago

or even use linux . . .

justincormack• 14 years ago

Or run it natively on iOS... it sounds incompetent to me.

shiven• 14 years ago

Does Microsoft even care anymore about MS-DOS to go after such IP infringement?

steeleduncan2• 14 years ago

Hopefully not, it is nice to see Tex on pad at last

ams6110• 14 years ago

Whether they care or not I don't know; I would say if you asked them they would care; I don't see any evidence that they've put the OS into the public domain or anything. I believe they do still distribute MS-DOS via MSDN, and it's still used for some legacy and embedded applications. I still see a lot of retail POS systems that appear to be running in DOS or at least in a full-screen character mode.

Wonder why DOS was chosen instead of Linux?

tomrod5• 14 years ago

GPL issues, maybe?

StavrosK• 14 years ago

Why didn't he just use Bochs to boot the image?

sproketboy• 14 years ago

Sounds like Apple will remove this if they find out about it.

jdleesmiller• 14 years ago

That is an impressive feat of emulation, but it's worth noting that there are some good online alternatives, if you really want to write LaTeX on your iPad (from somewhere with an Internet connection).

Here's one that I wrote: http://www.writelatex.com (At least I think it works on iPad... I haven't tested it recently.)

And there's also http://www.scribtex.com and http://www.sharelatex.com

podperson2• 14 years ago

By the same token doing the conversion in the cloud and wrapping a nice UI around it would be totally viable.

fudged71• 14 years ago

I had a hard time using these tools on the iPad several months ago, if it works now, I'd love to know!

pygy_2• 14 years ago

To answer several comments who suggest to use Free software:

You can't run GPLed software on iOS. The App store has its own license with term incompatible with the "no other restrictions" of the GPL, and Apple, who is the distributor, is not willing to provide the source anyway.

This means No FreeDos, no Linux, no DOSBox, no QEMU(which is has no interpreter, only a dynamic compiler, which also rules it out), no BOCHS...

I don't think that there are non-native, non-GPL, non-proprietary solution to run TeX on iOS.

To run TeX on iOS, you'd have to port the WEB/Pascal compiler (the language in which TeX is written) to ARM+iOS...

ksherlock• 14 years ago

web2c converts the TeX web/pascal source code to C code which is what actually gets compiled for teTex, TeXLive, etc.

http://www.tug.org/svn/texlive/trunk/Build/source/texk/web2c...

smashing• 14 years ago

> You can't run GPLed software on iOS.

This is 100% not true. GPL v1 and v2 are fine and v3 has some questions that most people avoid by sticking to v2 of the license. There are, however, GPL v3 licensed apps in the Apple App Store which you can find if you only looked.

tzs• 14 years ago

No, GPLv2 is not fine. GPLv2 software can only be legally distributed via the iOS App Store if the owners of the copyright to the GPLv2 portions grant Apple a separate non-GPL license.

This is necessary because the App Store TOS imposes restrictions on the user that conflict with GPLv2 section 6.

This is also the reason GPLv3 doesn't work for the App Store, although there is a common misconception that the GPLv3 incompatibility arises from the anti-Tivo provisions. Those provisions are not applicable to the App Store, since the App Store is only distributing add-on software for the device. The anti-Tivo provision in GPLv3 is narrow, only applying to GPLv3 software that is distributed WITH the hardware.

Yes, there is GPL software on the App Store. That can happen in two ways:

1\. The copyright owner of the GPL code is the party that submitted the app to the App Store. In this case, they are in effect dual licensing their GPL code. Apple gets a non-GPL license to make and distribute copies. Everyone else gets a GPL license.

2\. Some developer took third party GPL code and used it in his app. The copyright owner of the GPL code has not agreed to dual license the code for Apple.

In the second case, Apple WILL pull the app from the store if the copyright owner of the GPL code notifies them of the violation.

Note that the above analysis is specifically for the Apple store. I don't know how other stores work. A key aspect of the Apple store is that Apple makes and distributes copies of the apps on its store. The developer uploads one copy, and then when Apple approves that and users start purchasing copies of it, it is Apple that is making and distributing those copies. Hence, Apple needs copyright permission.

A store when the store operator did not make and distribute copies would require different analysis.

tomrod5• 14 years ago

Would it be possible to make a MathML writer that typesets?

thebooktocome2• 14 years ago

MathML is not a substitute for TeX.

tomrod5• 14 years ago

It isn't yet, but for the basics it may well be usable.

duaneb4• 14 years ago

Sure, but that just covers certain math typesetting - a small subset of TeX.

tomrod5• 14 years ago

Only 1 out of the hundreds of TeX users I know use TeX specifically for math typesetting. I'm unfortunately not able to contribute at this time in that community, but I'd be the second if I had the available time.

chj4• 14 years ago

Developer here.

Take this as a proof of concept. New update (a native one) will change everything.

Btw:

1. The 486 emulation engine I have been working on is intended for DOS game emulation. It happens to be fast enough to run TeX, although it is at least ten times slower than the native version.

2. Next time, don't pretend to be a customer in the email. Be clear that you are a developer (working on TeX apps), I'll be more open to your questions.

ghost91• 14 years ago

It would be interesting to hear your standpoint on the IP infringements (DOS, GPL License...)

chj4• 14 years ago

First of all, No GPL violation here. The BIOS rom is licensed under LGPL, as long as you do not build it in the executable, you are not violating anything. Users can replace this component freely.

The disk image is formatted with "/S" option. I am not sure if that counts as shipping DOS.

TazeTSchnitzel• 14 years ago

Suggestion: use FreeDOS to avoid MS copyright issues.

radarsat12• 14 years ago

I understand this as a good hack, but I don't really get why anyone would want to run TeX on an iPad/iPhone. I mean, phones and tablets seem to be good at everything except for extensive typing. I would never want to work on a paper on my tablet, I can barely type out a long email on it without getting frustrated.

cyrus_• 14 years ago

You can use Bluetooth keyboards with iOS.

duaneb4• 14 years ago

I do most of my typing on my iPad via a bluetooth keyboard.

radarsat12• 14 years ago

Cool, but why not just use a laptop then?

podperson2• 14 years ago

I read somewhere a bunch of people (teenagers / college students) saying that they could type at normal speed on iPad glass keyboards, so I did an experiment and with no practice could achieve over 40wpm (and I suck -- I get about 60wpm on a "proper" keyboard, which is fine since I don't compose prose or code faster than that).

I suspect that it's partially an acclimatization issue, and getting over the hump just requires time. (My "hump" for getting to be as productive with a trackpad as with a mouse, by comparison, was about 12 years...)

FrojoS• 14 years ago

I don't get it. The OP pretends to like the app and is glad someone achieved to build one for iOS. But then, why suggest the author, chj did something potentially illegal or at least against the rules of the app store? In Germany we say: "Don't wake up sleeping dogs."

chj4• 14 years ago

App has been updated:

http://litchie.com/blog/?p=406

How TeX made it to the iOS App Store - running on DOS, inside an emulator

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