Man kicked off flight by pilot for wearing anti-TSA shirt

http://arijitvsdelta.blogspot.co.uk/

by TallGuyShort • 14 years ago

66 82 14 years ago

arijitvsdelta.blogspot.co.uk

ghshephard2• 14 years ago

While, I understand on principle why he thinks he should be allowed to fly wearing any political statement he wishes - it's the kind of principle I had when I was less than 30. Nowadays, I completely understand and appreciate why passengers don't want to fly on a plane with someone who was wearing a shirt that had the phrases, "Moisture BOMBS", "Terrorists gonna kill us all", "Alert Level Blood Red."

At a certain point, you really don't want, "that guy" flying on your plane, and I'm happy the pilot made the call he did.

In the future - perhaps different attire might be considered before boarding a plane.

Bud5• 14 years ago

I feel uncomfortable boarding planes with guys wearing NASCAR hats, subtly racist tattoos, etc.

Can I get those passengers kicked off, too? Or is it only non-white liberals who get booted?

powertower• 14 years ago

What do NASCAR hats and racist tattoos have to do with this?

This person knowing full well about the hysteria around terrorism, bombs, and air flights went out of his way to cause an incident, and is now complaining about "white racists", unfair treatment, and the airlines.

All he had to do was show up dressed in a normal tee-shirt. But this wasn't good enough for him. He had to make a statement. In a cramped space of an airplane, of all the places. And it turns out the other people didn't get his joke.

grecy4• 14 years ago

> In the future - perhaps different attire might be considered before boarding a plane.

In the not too distant future:

Don't wear attire supporting political party X if you plan to leave your house.

awj5• 14 years ago

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope#As_a_fallacy

mikeash6• 14 years ago

The irony is that terrorists will try to remain innocuous and a guy like this is less likely to be dangerous than average.

benhoyt3• 14 years ago

Very much agreed. I remember once going through airport security (in New Zealand) and the guy said, "Could you please take off your jacket." So I did, then remembered I'd put on my "DANGER, EXPLOSIVE" T-shirt that morning. I looked down and said, "Oops, that was kind of a silly T-shirt to wear, wasn't it?" "Sure was," he said, "Now zip up your jacket and get on the plane!"

cecilpl• 14 years ago

When I was 20 I had a pen in my pocket and it leaked all over my pants on a flight.

On the way back home, I was going through airport security and had another pen in my pocked. I picked it up from the tray, turned to my friend behind me, and without thinking said in a fairly loud voice, "I wonder if this one will explode on the plane".

Dead silence as every eye in the room turns to this young kid holding up a pen. I just stammered out an apology as my face went bright red and I shoved it back in my pocket.

I can't actually believe they let me on the plane.

Bud5• 14 years ago

I don't see why pilots need to have the power to boot passengers. At all. That's why TSA supposedly exists. Racist objections from passengers should not be able to lead to other passengers getting booted from flights.

anigbrowl2• 14 years ago

Racism is one possibility, but so is anxiety about the guy's shirt and his attitude. Not very rational, but a cramped airline fuselage isn't the ideal place for your political protest. A snotty disregard for the concerns of others tends to make them unsympathetic to your point of view.

As for why pilots have the power to boot people, it's because they're responsible for the safety and happiness of the passengers during the flight, and the airline is there to make money on slim margins, not to serve as a public utility. Unless an airline engages in systematic discrimination against a protected class of people, then pilots will generally be allowed to appease the majority of paying passengers.

grecy4• 14 years ago

> a cramped airline fuselage isn't the ideal place for your political protest.

Free Speech (but only when we say so)

wilzan• 14 years ago

He changed his shirt and they still wouldn't let him on.

chiph2• 14 years ago

It's because when the plane pushes back from the gate, the pilot is in charge and is responsible for the safety of everyone aboard. Much like how a captain at sea is responsible for everyone on board his ship (and is held accountable should tragedy strike).

It's not a republic or democracy when you're on his plane. What he says, goes.

dhimes5• 14 years ago

This isn't even about safety. It's the pilot's job (if he wants to keep it) to make the passengers as comfortable as possible also. That's why they dodge turbulence. Except in extreme cases, it has nothing to do with safety.

Bud5• 14 years ago

That's not a why. That's just you stating the fact, and it's non-responsive to my question.

In this case, the plane had not pushed back from the gate. The pilot kicked this guy off before the flight. I think it's reasonable to ask why a random, unjustified passenger complaint to the pilot should override the TSA's screening process.

mindslight5• 14 years ago

While agreeing with that, Delta should still be held responsible for getting him to his destination on a reasonable schedule, the costs of his accommodations, and his and his wife's wasted time.

thelucky41• 14 years ago

I am a pilot (not an airline pilot). It is absolutely mandatory for the pilot-in-command to have complete discretion when dealing with passengers on their aircraft. While I may have let this man board my own plane, this pilot-in-command used his own judgement to determine that the passenger presented too large a risk to the safety and comfort of other passengers.

It is completely within his duties to do that. It is also completely within Delta's duties as his employer to question his judgement and fire him for being a racist later.

myko• 14 years ago

> It is also completely within Delta's duties as his employer to question his judgement and fire him for being a racist later.

Seems like the only reasonable response.

downwithmycrew• 14 years ago

Just wear a plain tee.

swdunlop2• 14 years ago

Or fly naked.

http://articles.cnn.com/2012-04-18/travel/travel_oregon-airp...

dstroot• 14 years ago

Never, ever, interfere or make light of their mission to prevent water from flying!

Never mind the fact that I am drinking my "bomb juice" to slake my thirst. Or take off my belt, shoes, jacket and remove my laptop (but not my iPad) to have them "screened" by experts.

I think Arijit just made the no-fly list.

rm999• 14 years ago

His point isn't particularly controversial, air security has gone too far.

But he was looking for trouble by wearing that shirt, in his words mocking the "over-reactions to terrorism by the general public". He comes off as an angry person who doesn't sympathize with the genuine (and obvious) fears people may have. Ultimately he weakens his own point by acting so ridiculous; he gave the TSA and Delta a reason to mess with him.

grecy4• 14 years ago

> he gave the TSA a reason to mess with him.

So much for free speech.

benhoyt3• 14 years ago

There's a time and a place for everything, including speaking freely. As another example, the time to be vocal about your disagreement with someone's policies is not by picketing their funeral.

mikeash6• 14 years ago

Whenever I'm subjected to TSA, I'm an angry person and I don't sympathize at all with the fears people may have. Genuine though they may be, they are ridiculous. You are safer flying on an airliner than you are sitting in your living room, and that's not the TSA's doing. I shouldn't have to respect people's ridiculous and baseless fears in order to exercise my right to travel.

mturmon2• 14 years ago

You can wear the shirt, but you can't be surprised when they single you out for more security checks. (Recognition and response to specific potential threats is what critics of "security theater" want, anyway.)

Once you get the check, which was not unexpected, you should expect that if you are perceived as smarting off, then the situation will get worse. Since they have all the power, it can get arbitrarily bad.

Given that this could have been foreseen, expressions of surprise and incredulity in the post don't make sense.

There is a place for this kind of protest. But if you want to advance the cause of freedom of expression, you have to be disciplined when the process you helped start starts unfolding. Do you have a strategy in this protest, or are you acting out feelings about authority figures?

If you're just acting out feelings, you're playing into their hands. The guard will be "stern daddy" (he took this job to play that role) and you will be "misunderstood child." Everyone cries in the end, but nothing changes.

I went to a how-to on public protests ran by an AIDS activist who was one of the key organizers of many ACT-UP protests in NYC in the late 80s. The particular protest that he discussed was the 1989 demonstration in St. Patrick's Cathedral in NYC, which made the national news, and has been a touchstone since (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIDS_Coalition_to_Unleash_Power...).

According to the activist, this was a protest in which the personal feelings/animosity of many activists there towards the church, made the entire action not as productive as it should have been, and just generally a messy affair. (Protesters breaking communion wafers, etc. -- means nothing to me, but to a believer, it's a big deal.)

It's a complex topic. I came out of the workshop with a greater appreciation of how much focus and discipline it takes to really bring about change.

mikeash6• 14 years ago

"You can wear the shirt, but you can't be surprised when they single you out for more security checks. (Recognition and response to specific potential threats is what critics of "security theater" want, anyway.)"

What? No. No, no, no. What we want is recognition and response to actual threats, not knee-jerk responses to anything unusual or non-conformist.

A shirt like this doesn't indicate a threat. Smart security would not single it out.

guelo2• 14 years ago

This protest was extremely effective. His message has reached thousands of people and I wouldn't be surprised if Delta s actually looking into their policies.

lazyjones• 14 years ago

In other words, he trolled them successfully and they displayed the unprofessional, dumb conduct he expected.

I'll give him the benefit of doubt and assume he was not trying to provoke anyone, even though he could have expected the paranoid reactions of some passengers (probably a small minority that needs professional help, let's be honest).

ww520• 14 years ago

The terrorists have won. Americans have lost their way of life.

dhimes5• 14 years ago

This has nothing to do with that. It's like wearing a t-shirt saying "rape is underrated" to a home for battered women. It's thoughtless and selfish and not funny.

And for reasons I stated elsewhere, the pilot made the right call, especially from a business perspective.

readymade• 14 years ago

A shirt mocking the TSA doesn't come close to that analogy, even if you consider it bad taste, since it doesn't legitimize, condone or make light of terrorism. If it said "Terrorism rules!", then perhaps you'd have a point, although it's still a stupid reason to put him through what they did, especially considering his ordeal did not end with agreeing to change his clothes.

dhimes5• 14 years ago

What an immature little creep. There are plenty of people who are nervous about flying but who have to do so anyway due to family or business or what-have-you. So he shows up in this shirt-- why?? What's really the point? To get in the TSA workers' faces? To look like a tough guy to the scared grandma, who needed one less thing to worry about on the flight? Fuck off.

Kudos to the pilot who made a decision based on the comfort of the passengers. Let him walk. It's the same decision pilots make when they dodge a little turbulence. Safety? Not at all. Comfort of the passengers. Easing their mind. Pure and simple.

highace• 14 years ago

Exactly. The moral of this story is clearly not to wear t-shirts joking about bombs, terrorists, or killing, when you know you're going to be boarding a plane.

Bud5• 14 years ago

I think you're ranting, and did not actually read the article. This guy clearly did not have the objective of "getting in the TSA workers' faces"; the article clearly states that he had already cleared the TSA checkpoint without incident, and was then challenged by a Delta supervisor.

It sounds to me, based on all the facts we have available, that someone got in this guy's face. Not the other way around.

So basically, you are making up your entire argument.

dhimes5• 14 years ago

Nope. You are reading his story without thinking. I don't buy his story. He's a punk who was getting off on the whole idea of what he was doing. There are three possibilities in this case:

(1) he woke up, possibly hung over, and dressed without thinking;

(2) he deliberated picked his shirt knowing he would be dealing with TSA agents, etc. (in your face!) and possibly knowing that he would make some folks nervous and not giving a shit; or

(3) he made the choice in #2 but with the aim to antagonize-- in essence, psychologically bullying those around him (Oh, I'm not scared, are you?).

I figure that if it was #1 the blog post would have bee a whole lot different. The best I can allow him is that it was a move of immaturity. I am not applauding, regardless of my stance on the TSA and their practices.

Someone• 14 years ago

"based on all the facts we have available"? The only facts I get from this page are "there is this guy who is pissed because he got kicked from a plane, allegedly solely for wearing this anti-TSA t-shirt". The article contains a one-sided statement. It may be factually correct, or it may not, but we do not know which.

awj5• 14 years ago

I'd imagine the reality here is like many other times someone got "uppity" or "snarky" with people dealing in public safety: his version of expressing contempt for the situation was interpreted as belligerence and a lack of willingness to cooperate in the establishment of security.

I get what he was trying to do. I even agree with his opinions on the situation. But if that shirt represents the attitude he held in the whole encounter, it's no surprise things went to shit.

guelo2• 14 years ago

Right, just like those uppity negroes deserved to be put in their place back in the day.

awj5• 14 years ago

We really need another version of Godwin's Law, but for slavery instead of Nazis.

saraid2162• 14 years ago

> But if that shirt represents the attitude he held in the whole encounter, it's no surprise things went to shit.

It's not surprising, but it's also not right.

Cops who don't know how to deal with an antagonistic attitude aren't really useful anywhere that deals directly with the public.

awj5• 14 years ago

I agree, they aren't. But here we're talking about TSA agents (who more or less acted appropriately, in my opinion) and Delta employees. I expect neither of these to perform well when balancing public safety against antagonistic attitudes. Especially the Delta employees.

mbesto• 14 years ago

Can we seriously stop with this stuff on HN...

tylermauthe• 14 years ago

Tend to agree... I go to reddit to waste time reading about this sort of thing...

bithive123• 14 years ago

Last time I went through airport security the TSA agent kept pestering me to empty my pockets, after I found a dollar bill in one. When I produced a kleenex (tissue), he got all indignant "You can have nothing in your pockets, sir! That's not nothing, it's something!" so I placed it in a plastic bin and told him "here, you can scan that."

I was really annoyed but I knew they stopped exercising any judgement at all when they made it illegal to bring a bottle of water through security, even if everyone is 100% certain that it contains only water.

Unfortunately the airport is not the place for this kind of activism. This should be as self-evident as the TSA's idiocy.

cwisecarver• 14 years ago

The morale of the story is don't fly Delta.

They're a business and they have every right to throw someone off the plane to enhance passenger comfort. He made it through the TSA checks so we can't blame them. The only way to explain to Delta that you don't want your freedom of expression or speech violated is to not fly on their planes. Let all the passengers that want to overreact to a t-shirt, something completely benign, fly Delta and everyone else can fly one of the other carriers.

Everyone's freedom stays intact.

criveros• 14 years ago

This is not hacker news.

jack-r-abbit5• 14 years ago

Hmmm.... it just occurred to me... what do you think would happen if they threw the man off because he was wearing a clown outfit? That seems pretty ridiculous to me. But let's consider the number of people that have a genuine fear of clowns. Is it still ridiculous? I still think so. But if this was all about making sure that all of the passengers felt comfortable, then it would seem perfectly acceptable to toss a man for dressing like a clown. But that does not seem acceptable at all. Just like when Billie Joe Armstrong got tossed because his pants were saggy[1]. And he's a god damn rock star!

[1]http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/billie-joe-armstrong-kic...

r00fus2• 14 years ago

I wonder if he would have gotten on the plane by just wearing a "TSA can go grope themselves" shirt without the word "bombs" and other uncomfortable trigger words.

I'm pretty sure everyone hates the TSA - if it's made funny or largely agreeable it becomes a real test of their authority.

Then again, I wouldn't have the guts to do what this guy or the guy who got naked did.

Man kicked off flight by pilot for wearing anti-TSA shirt

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