Write JavaScript in your Local Language

by donohoe • 14 years ago

38 27 14 years ago

EugeneOZ• 14 years ago

Bad idea. It's bad for collaboration and it looks comic (especially when you need to use words like "HTTP", "POST" near with local language words). We in Russia have already good example of software written in "local language" - "1S". For developers in Russia it's reference of code smell.

TazeTSchnitzel2• 14 years ago

Yep. And programming languages, while they use English keywords, are not English. They are languages in their own right, and "translating" words is not a good idea, because that's creating a new language.

poblano2• 14 years ago

I agree this is probably a bad idea, but I still think the basic problem it's trying to solve is a real one.

A less hack-y solution might be for new languages to start incorporating more languages in their choices of keywords and class names.

Suppose someone were designing a new language (let's call it Foolang), and these were some of the keywords:

* publico, privado, protegido (access specifiers in Spanish)

* eetha/akhra (if/else in Arabic)

* zhen/jia (true/false in Mandarin)

I think this would be an interesting experiment. It would have to be a compelling language in its own right though.

stevoski• 14 years ago

How does this handle reserved keywords? An acceptable variable name in English might be a reserved word in Finnish.

alanning2• 14 years ago

My understanding is that this is all about reserved words. It is a reverse mapping of (English) javascript reserved words from their non-English translations.

kig2• 14 years ago

Good catch, you can break it by translating JS like this to Finnish: var muu = 0; -> muu muu = 0; and compile back to JS -> var var = 0;

I'll need to extend the compiler to escape reserved words in the target language.

jabiko• 14 years ago

JavaScript? Are you sure?

    "extends": "erweitert",
    "abstract": "abstrakt",
    "volatile": "volatil",
    "interface": "schnittstelle",
    "protected": "geschützt",
    "transient": "transient",
    "implements": "implementiert",
    "synchronized": "synchronisiert",

mmahemoff• 14 years ago

Some of those are reserved words in JavaScript (https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/JavaScript/Referenc...). I'm not sure why the others are there.

sciolistse• 14 years ago

Those are actually a part of a "future reserved keywords" list from an older version of the ecmascript spec.. Safari v1 used to disallow the use of a few of them, but they never actually wound up getting used, and in more recent versions have been removed.

You can see them here: http://viewvc.svn.mozilla.org/vc/projects/mozilla.org/trunk/...

Search for "Future Reserved Words"

jfaucett• 14 years ago

I think this could actually be very interesting, especially for teaching children programming in non-native english speaking countries. Wouldn't it be cool if kahn academy adopted this for compsci stuff so teachers could use it in elementary? Any thoughts about making this require compliant?

vidarh• 14 years ago

This gives me nightmares of the time I was hired on contract to update a bunch of Word95 macros to manage the ISO9001 quality handbook for an international company. Thing is, Word95 could (or always did?) localize the BASIC keywords at least for some countries (no idea when/if that stopped - I have thankfully not needed that particular skill again..) and stored the scripts tokenized. Which was usually not a big problem - few people transferred scripts between localized versions.

Except these macros had been transferred from the Danish version of Word to the Norwegian version. A reasonable percentage of the code had been moved over in ways that made Word treat it as text, instead of tokenized BASIC, and consequently the translation wasnæt made. As a result, they had a ton of Danish keywords in the Norwegian codebase.

Yay. Now, it isn't the worst combination - the two languages are very similar. On the other hand this meant that a lot of things seemed plausible to me in Norwegian, yet still broke horribly because they had sometimes chosen different words that were both valid in either language...

zokier4• 14 years ago

Afaik Excel to this day uses localized function etc names.

alanning2• 14 years ago

Nice work! I could certainly see how it could lower the barrier to entry for non-English speakers when trying to learn programming. My brother-in-law, for example, has been having a hard time with English but could probably pick up Javascript faster if he could use something like this.

Something else that would be useful for him would be a simplified translation dict that only contained jquery functions. Something like http://www.jsrosettastone.com/ but for other spoken languages.

Use case would be quick reference: he sees node.append(...) somewhere but doesn't know what append means so quickly looks it up.

Edit: it's easy to find ways in which something won't work. In the spirit of the recent discussions regarding being positive on HN, let's look for ways things like this can be beneficial.

ColMustard• 14 years ago

Doesn't this just mean that when you need to look up something by searching your localized terms, you won't get any hits?

zokier4• 14 years ago

Search engines could be localization-aware. Google already makes quite complex transformations to the queries, I don't think this would be insurmountable.

NelsonMinar• 14 years ago

Nice work! As a native English speaker I am lucky that the rest of the world works in my language, but it shouldn't have to be that way.

But why js-i18n? Shouldn't "Localized Javascript" be called js-l10n?

icebraining• 14 years ago

As a non-native English speaker, yes, it should. Learning a few keywords is nothing compared to the pain that would be sharing that code with others.

adrusi2• 14 years ago

This should really be an editor feature, something that can automatically replace localized words with english words and later show the localized version when the english version is moused over (or something like that).

Writing the entire codebase with localized words hinders collaboration, and code portability.

But having an editor feature that assists with the (human) language would keep all the localization with just a single user rather than in the entire codebase. Additionally, it would be able to display the english version as well, which could help the foreign user learn by osmosis.

DivisibleByZero• 14 years ago

Agreed. This would be fabulous as a vim plugin.

adrusi2• 14 years ago

maybe tapping into the functionality of the "conceal" feature? http://demonastery.org/2012/07/lambda-conceal-in-vim/

evmar• 14 years ago

For what it's worth, you can make the Arabic translation "more native" by adding a "dir=rtl" attribute to the text area, though it's still not quite right. Or you can leave in in LTR mode and put an LRM (in JS, "\u200e") after each word to make it just look like the English with all the words swapped out.

Both point at the underlying problem that translation is not a matter of just swapping out the words. For example, the mathematical notation that most programming languages rely upon is fundamentally left to right (much in the same way the keywords are English).

See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Arabic_mathematical_nota... (which I just discovered!) and also http://www.w3.org/TR/arabic-math/

flexie• 14 years ago

Always great to see creative work like this :-)

I am not a native English speaker myself but I've always felt that translations into my language of just about anything (computer lingo, science etc) made difficult concepts harder to understand, not easier.

zokier4• 14 years ago

What is this projects relation to the referenced BabylScript project? They seem similar enough.

kig2• 14 years ago

I did a quick Finnish translation as a lark, then found the BabylScript project and added their translations to the page.

The main difference between the approaches is that BabylScript does things in a more Right Way (they do punctuation, number parsing, localised object property names) whereas js-i18n only maps translated tokens to JavaScript tokens. Token mapping is easy to implement and has no effect on the generated code (though you need to watch out for namespace collisions, as different words in language X may map into one word in language Y). From reading the paper, the BabylScript project needs to do some runtime dispatching to handle translated property names.

Write JavaScript in your Local Language

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