Veteran NYTimes Photographer Arrested & Allegedly Beaten by NYPD

http://blog.chasejarvis.com/blog/2012/08/veteran-nytimes-photographer-arrested-allegedly-beaten-by-nypd-interview/

by aaronbrethorst • 14 years ago

255 90 14 years ago

blog.chasejarvis.com

Interesting, but what does this have to do with HN?

385668• 14 years ago

I would say that it shows evidence of the increasingly common trend of police officers frequently greeting citizens going about lawful activities with violence.

k-mcgrady• 14 years ago

And what does that have to do with HN?

res0nat0r2• 14 years ago

HN has really turned into anti {government, Hollywood, big music, Facebook, Google, Craigslist, anything-else-that-is-large-and makes-a-bunch-of-money} lately so this isn't surprising.

untog2• 14 years ago

Agreed. I think everyone here is aware of Reddit- if we want to talk about that kind of stuff, let's just go there.

Karunamon5• 14 years ago

Well, government, Hollywood, Big music, Facebook, (arguably) Google, Craigslist, and any other enterprise which is large and makes a bunch of money, are clear and present dangers to the mostly free internet we have today. Which, considering my job, and considering the average startup, is the biggest threat to their existence.

If this bothers you, good. It should.

AJ007• 14 years ago

That sounds like the same attitude of 2600 or /. It is hardly new in this sub-culture, and has been around for decades.

Innovative technologies are disruptive, and those behind the disruption generally look down on monopolies with antiquated products. Given the pace of change, sometimes we as the disruptive become the disrupted.

paulsutter• 14 years ago

Privacy and civil liberties are immensely important to the technology entrepreneur. We need to be aware of the legal pitfalls of technology, and be sensitive to the privacy risks we can create. I find this story very relevant to HN.

For example, if you are creating an app that records sound or images, you would want to be aware of the risks to camera users. Especially if that camera is less obvious than the camera used by the photographer in this story. The law seems to be on the side of the photographer but the realities are complex.

This is covered under the HN guidelines, as the intersection between technology, privacy, and civil liberties is definitely an interesting new and ongoing phenomenon.

tptacek3• 14 years ago

Every civil liberties story ever posted to HN has been accompanied by that justification, and, were it to be taken seriously, there would be nothing but social justice stories on HN, there being no dearth of important social justice stories to find on any given day.

eli• 14 years ago

My startup covers business news for the waste management industry, among others. But surely you don't want to hear about Virginia's new landfill and recycling restrictions even though they're tangentially connected to a startup and to technology?

bluesnowmonkey• 14 years ago

There's no new technology intersection here. If someone got beaten up and jailed for refusing to disclose the password to an encrypted hard drive, that would be an example of what you're talking about. Full disk encryption is new. This is not. We've had photography and cops beating up photographers for a long time.

Let's be honest: this story is here because it makes people angry. It's the kind of story that you'd get as an email forward from your aunt. It gets attention and stirs up emotion. It does not gratify one's intellectual curiosity.

5partan• 14 years ago

Slamming a photographers camera in his face you call complex? i would call it stupid abuse of power, if the police officer felt threatened, he should act like a pofessional, not a bully from highschool.

jamesmcn2• 14 years ago

Most of us carry smart phones that could, at any time, be recording audio, photos or video. It is useful to know if the police can abuse you simply because you are suspected of recording them.

Some of us are building or contemplating building products that make use of those smart phone features. If such activity is likely to result in police brutality directed at our customers, that is worth knowing.

Technology impacts the real world. How and where our technology touches society in general is worth understanding.

untog2• 14 years ago

Most of us carry smart phones that could, at any time, be recording audio, photos or video.

Most of everyone does, though. That doesn't make it HN material. I'd wager that most of us brush our teeth, but I don't think that an article about toothbrush sales should be posted here.

adaml_623• 14 years ago

You have to know about the world in order to change it.

I don't want to sound like an idiot spouting zen koans but you really have to be aware of major trends to be able to navigate around them or even perhaps change them. The clash between technology and authority is a very interesting one.

The individual, the mob and the government are all empowered differently by each new advance.

davidw• 14 years ago

So read a newspaper, no? Nothing says you have to get the totality of your news from HN.

tptacek3• 14 years ago

It has nothing at all to do with HN.

thebigshane• 14 years ago

Yet here we all are, reading it and discussing it. :-)

larrys• 14 years ago

I think there is a story here actually that is a valuable lesson to those who read HN.

He goes to a great lengths to tell this as "nothing to see here, move along.."

Now why would he do that?

My theory on this is that in the past he didn't have to contend with pain in the ass bystanders doing the same thing that he did. Those amateurs are now making it increasingly difficult for a professional like him to do his job.

As a result he wants to send a message out there for fear that if he doesn't his rights will be restricted as a result of others behaviors. It's a little "last man over the bridge".

The other possibility of course is that he has something to hide. He doesn't want to stir the hornets nest for fear that something will happen to him and he wants to keep a low profile by ending this as soon as possible.

sophacles• 14 years ago

Right. Well... except for that little bit where it is an interesting data point in how official backlash against amateur photography and journalism is reaching the formerly safe "credentialed pro" folks. You know, the thing where the cops nation-wide, and honestly world-wide are starting to attack everyone reporting on them using easy access tech like phones, because it upsets the former balance where only they had those powers.

Has nothing to do with those of us making that tech at all. You're right.

sitkack• 14 years ago

You are trolling HN with your constant complaining about off topic stories. Down vote and move on. Look at amout of "discussion" that is in response to the OT story. The second level OT-OT I can only construe as to poison the well.

lifeguard• 14 years ago

American democracy has now begun to begin "The Internet Reformation". This will be annoying for the apathetic. Expect significant friction with police as they are the tools of those currently in power.

To put it another way, how useful is the right to read the source if one does not have the right to free speech, assembly, religion (or lack there of), and petition for redress of grievances.

To be even more blunt, the Magna Carta Libertatum is under attack.

liquidcool• 14 years ago

While civil liberty issues get upvoted here, I think the added element of photography amplifies the interest. The intersection between techies and photography enthusiasts seems pretty high (you'll note there are a number of photography/imaging technology stories here as well).

MartinCron2• 14 years ago

Photography, even before digital, has always been such a technical art form that it makes sense that a lot of hacker-types are drawn to it.

I have more computers in my house than cameras, but only barely.

mmaunder• 14 years ago

It's part of the Redditization. Please try to keep up.

dromidas• 14 years ago

I really hope he presses charges and brings yet another wrongful suit against the state. Police officers must be held accountable for things they do and if it is a public area then they should act accordingly. A judge already ruled this many times, when will they learn.

fotbr• 14 years ago

He won't. Just read the article - he's already apologizing for the officers' behavior and just wants his equipment back.

rhizome3• 14 years ago

Hope they don't wage asset forfeiture on him.

nateabele• 14 years ago

It's a pretty safe bet that no such thing would ever pass a state legislature, but in cases where it can be demonstrated that an officer's behavior is clearly illegal, there need to be provisions for the officer to be held personally liable: no more hiding behind the city or the department.

Again, not that it'd likely ever happen, but hey, petitioning your elected representatives never (okay, rarely) hurt.

travisp• 14 years ago

In this recent case, NYC officials are refusing to defend a police inspector in lawsuits against him: http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/08/03/city-wont-defend-nypd...

However, his union is now paying for his defense.

Symmetry3• 14 years ago

Well, legally speaking the union has to defend him no matter what he does.

adrianwaj• 14 years ago

"He was charged with obstructing government administration and with resisting arrest as he was taking photographs of a brewing street fight in New York that involved a teenage girl."

Let's call it for what it is... the police were enjoying watching the fight and didn't want to be disturbed. What happened to the girl or rather the attacker? nothing, the justice was instead leveled at Stolarik, and what's he going to do back, nothing. What a shit hole NYC must be. (I might be wrong too)

dedward2• 14 years ago

As a tourist, NYC was pretty awesome, far better than I expected. Then again, it's awfully hard to generalize about a city that has the population of my country.

look_lookatme3• 14 years ago

Interestingly enough, it looks like his assignment was probably related to this:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/07/nyregion/for-women-in-stre...

stop-and-frisk is a significant issue in NYC. Ostensibly the authority is granted as part of a larger effort to eliminate firearms on the street. It resulted in nearly 700K stops in 2011. That got 800 some-odd guns off the streets of the city at an unknown cost to goodwill (given most people stopped-and-frisked are Black or Latino).

On the flip side there is no doubt that stop-and-frisk has contributed to one of the highest rates of marijuana arrests in the country for NYC. Odd, given New York state effectively decriminalized small amounts of weed in the 70's. It's only through a loophole that states publicly displaying the drug makes possession an arrestable offense and it's been reported that the NYPD consistently instructs people in stop-and-frisk situations to remove any drugs from their pocket and present it for inspection prior to frisking, making it publicly displayed.

Gov. Cuomo called on NY state legislature this year to eliminate the public display issue, but nothing happened before the end of the January-June session.

edit: added "small amounts"

daenz• 14 years ago

> it's been reported that the NYPD consistently instructs people in stop-and-frisk situations to remove any drugs from their pocket and present it for inspection prior to frisking, making it publicly displayed.

That's really interesting. Are you saying that if an officer finds marijuana, instructs you to remove it, and you refuse, you can't be arrested because you didn't display it publicly?

rhizome3• 14 years ago

No, they say "empty your pockets," and if there is pot there, they charge you not only with possession, but display as well.

Lost_BiomedE• 14 years ago

From my understanding, it is against the law to disobey a lawful order. I have been told that the way out is to ask explicitly 'Is that an order?', as you can not be charged due to following a lawful order. Maybe someone can confirm this, as at best, I have hearsay.

Either way, 'you can beat the rap but not the ride'.

chernevik• 14 years ago

They stop and frisk 47,000 women. They make 4000 arrests and find 59 guns. I daresay the arrests are mostly low-grade possession with some contempt-of-cop thrown in. At _best_ their hit rate is under 10%.

How on God's green earth are these searches "reasonable" under the Constitution?

I'm not a big one for "racism" or class analysis but there is no, no way a cop would try this on me, middle-class white guy, walking down the street. If he did I'd give him grief. I'd end up complying, but I'd look him in the eye and say "I've got your badge number. I've got your partner's badge number. Go ahead, take me in. This shit is writing up and you are going to be in paperwork on this for the next six months. I'll call my lawyer, you call your union rep 'cause he'll be working this for a while." And he knows, I've got the free time and the entitlement attitude and am sufficiently pissed off to go after him. And he knows the city council and the mayor's office won't just ignore me, that IAD will have to look into it.

At the end of the day I won't be able to touch him -- the union and the blue line will keep him from serious harm -- but it's going to be a hassle for everyone and it makes him less promotable / supportable in the future. And God only knows what else might get turned up.

All in all, a cop needs a _reason_ to frisk me, and if he hasn't got one he's going to pay a price, maybe just a nuisance, but maybe a high one. But he can bust on some black lady because, hey, maybe she's got a gun, and no one cares enough to listen to her complain.

And I don't want to hear this crap about a cop's safety. It is a tough, tough job and that's why I respect guys with badges. I would never do anything to make a cop's job harder. But if you are to claim safety as an excuse for violating my rights -- fuck you. That kind of "safety" looks a hell of a lot like the government dominance the Bill of Rights is supposed to prevent. You wanna be safe, be an actuary. Don't put on a uniform and expect me to treat you like a hero while you get nervous because someone _might_ have a gun.

I seriously do not understand why this stop and frisk thing is constitutional. If I had to put up with it I'd be pissed off too. Every time they do this they are telling people they are crap, they aren't citizens the way white guys like me are. Their gun hit rate is 0.12%! That isn't police work, that's a gang letting everyone know who's boss.

look_lookatme3• 14 years ago

Yup. Probably low grade possession (untold number that qualify as citation offense, but ended up being arrests), possibly warrant type stuff, etc:

  In 2011, New Yorkers were stopped by the police 685,724 times.
  605,328 were totally innocent (88 percent).
  350,743 were black (53 percent).
  223,740 were Latino (34 percent).
  61,805 were white (9 percent).
  341,581 were aged 14-24 (51 percent).

source: http://www.nyclu.org/issues/racial-justice/stop-and-frisk-pr...

beedogs2• 14 years ago

The NYPD is absolutely out of control and needs a shakedown from the top down. There is so much corruption and abuse going on that it may not even be fixable.

fleitz2• 14 years ago

I think the reporter may be suffering from stockholm syndrome.

darien2• 14 years ago

He wants to keep his job at the NYTimes. If he is known as an biased photographer who 'agitates' police, he won't be sent on certain assignments.

fleitz2• 14 years ago

Yes, one should always keep their impartiality towards human rights. It's important that journalists refrain from writing pieces which advocate human rights.

pavs• 14 years ago

I have lived in NY for 12 years. In my opinion NYPD is one of the worst I have seen in any developed country I have visited. They act and work like one big mafia thugs. If you are blacklisted by the NYPD, esp if you publicly badmouth them, you can count on them making your life a living hell.

Of course I am not saying everyone in NYPD is like that, and I have seen and known my own share of great individuals who works for NYPD. But generally speaking they are pretty bad, they have this attitude that they are above law and more often than not they get away with doing almost anything.

ggchappell• 14 years ago

FTA:

> I was taking pictures of something that was really wasn’t anything shocking for them. There was no police line. Ive been doing this a long time and its frustrating. Im credentialed. They asked for the credential, I’m shooting, the next thing I know I’m in jail and my equipment is confiscated.

Serious question: Why does/should it matter that he is credentialed?

dedward2• 14 years ago

It shouldn't - but it being NYC, and being a veteran reporter for the NYT, with your classic credentials just drives the point home even harder as there's no room to debate whether it was journalism or not....

mariuolo• 14 years ago

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/apr/24/usa.comment

olalonde• 14 years ago

As a side note, why do Americans frequently refer to the New York police department by its acronym (NYPD) instead of simply calling it "the police"? Is it because this particular police department is distinct from other "regular" police departments? I find it a bit strange since I don't recall observing this phenomenon for any other city's police departments (except maybe LAPD).

galadriel• 14 years ago

Because most of the police force in US in maintained by local government, like cities or counties. Since laws vary from state to state and cities to cities, it is helpful to mention where the incident is taking place. Mentioning NYPD tells you a lot of things at once- that the incident is specific to New York city (since state and federal authorities were not involved), and that it was done by local police force of New York city, which has very distinct operating pattern and policies from some other police force, like one in LA (the LAPD), or some small rural police force.

As to why LAPD and NYPD are famous, that must be probably because these two cities have incidents that are worth national/international discussion. If you start reading more local US news, they usually mention which police department is involved in the case, like the county head or State attorney, etc.

Veteran NYTimes Photographer Arrested & Allegedly Beaten by NYPD

Related Stories