Wasm2Mpy: Compiling WASM to MicroPython so it can run on Raspberrys

by syrusakbary • 2 years ago

86 39 2 years ago

bragr• 2 years ago

I feel like this project is a classic example of the README missing a "Why?" section. Not to justify the project, it just makes it hard to evaluate without understanding why they choose implementing a transpiler rather than an embedded WASM VM. Or why not transpile to native assembly? I'm sure they have good reasons but they aren't listed here.

ronsor• 2 years ago

Probably at least one of "it's cool" or "I'm already using MicroPython"

kragen2• 2 years ago

i think your questions are implicitly answered in the top page of the readme, but by showing rather than telling

esp32 and stm32 run three different native assembly instruction sets (though this only supports two of them, the others listed in the first line of the readme are all arm)

the coremark results seem like an adequate answer to why you'd use a compiler rather than an interpreter

i do think it would be clearer, though, to explain up front that the module being built is not made of python code, but rather callable from python code

kristianp• 2 years ago

i do think it would be clearer, though, to explain up front that the module being built is not made of python code, but rather callable from python code

I know nothing about micropython. Do the modules contain bytecode?

15155• 2 years ago

There's no scenario where a bespoke WASM interpreter is slower than MicroPython - though this isn't really Python.

WASM is an almost "ideal" bytecode target for embedded AOT native compilation as well, though yeah, you'd have to implement all of the backend targets.

vshymanskyy12• 2 years ago

Thanks for the feedback. I'll improve the README based on your inputs. I was focused on the actual research. Overall, this allows writing code in statically compiled languages and running it (fast) on embedded systems with MicroPython. MicroPython itself is comparatively slow, and this provides tools to deliver more demanding software (AI, signal processing, etc).

0points2• 2 years ago

There exists tooling already to compile for wasm from static languages (rust, C++, and so on) and there exists tooling to run this WASM on a raspberry pi (wasmer, etc).

That makes me feel the end goal here is not what's described ("make wasm so it can run on a raspberry"), but rather "make wasm run in micropython".

Am I missing something?

szundi• 2 years ago

Can we have python compiled to wasm compiled to python compiled to wasm compiled to python - just for obfuscation reasons?

cyanydeez• 2 years ago

Best add a LLM into the loop for real speed.

vshymanskyy12• 2 years ago

With this approach, wasm is compiled to native code. Translating that to Python is in theory possible, but very impractical.

boomskats• 2 years ago

Jokes aside, when I first saw this I also assumed that WASM was being transpiled into a subset of micropython as some sort of homage to WASM's asm.js roots. The explanations in this thread make much more sense.

oulipo6• 2 years ago

What would be the recommendation to run on ESP32?

https://github.com/wasm3/wasm3? https://github.com/espressif/esp-wasmachine ? https://github.com/bytecodealliance/wasm-micro-runtime/tree/... ? https://github.com/TOPLLab/WARDuino ?

vshymanskyy12• 2 years ago

For esp32 I'd recommend https://github.com/wasm3/embedded-wasm-apps

It obviously depends on your needs/goals.

P.S. I'm also the author of wasm3

oulipo6• 2 years ago

thanks for your answer!! Can you tell me a bit more about why this suggestion might be more appropriate than the others?

Is it in terms of maturity? Speed? Memory footprint? Safety?

oulipo6• 2 years ago

Actually in my case I need a VM, because I want users to be able to upload "extension plugins" in real-time, without reuploading firmware

In that case which approach / library would you recommend to embedd a WASM VM?

tony-allan• 2 years ago

A great way to allow code created in another language to be compiled to a MicroPython module and then run in a MicroPython environment.

These .mpy files are dynamically loaded into MicroPython using a regular python import.

vshymanskyy12• 2 years ago

Author here, ready to answer any questions.

jonathrg• 2 years ago

Like several others I'm confused about the tagline for this. If I understand correctly, it's not compiling "WASM to micropython", but to native binary code with generated micropython bindings?

vshymanskyy12• 2 years ago

Correct. I didn't create the tagline, sorry

Wasm2Mpy: Compiling WASM to MicroPython so it can run on Raspberrys

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