China's startup ecosystem has almost completely collapsed in the last 5 years

https://twitter.com/alecstapp/status/1834201320212898179

by breerbgoat • 2 years ago

33 39 2 years ago

twitter.com

mensetmanusman• 2 years ago

The CCP doesn’t want ad-tech startups, so they blew up the whole system.

Easier to have zero business leaders that might tip the boat with suggestions.

This is ‘let it rot’ in action.

bamboozled• 2 years ago

Will be interesting to see how it plays out :)

I think ad-tech has been a massive disaster for our society. I quit Instagram recently, I logged on the other day to message someone in the walled garden, I was shocked at what I saw and I couldn't believe I spent any time on it at all!

naveen99• 2 years ago

I guess if people can’t be rich with government funny money, they will just accumulate IOU’s from each other. Maybe automate the system in a decentralized ledger that avoids counterparty risk. Oh wait…

Of course tiktok, byd ev’s, solar, ai models coming out of China are doing fine, so it’s not all bleak.

musicale• 2 years ago

The CCP doesn’t want ad-tech startups

well that's one thing we can agree on.

stonethrowaway3• 2 years ago

CCP has been doing lots of things that people have, by and far, been silently nodding to and agreeing on. This particular instance is just saying the quiet part out loud.

pseudosaid• 2 years ago

because they are the best ad tech. ads are about modifying behavior via external stimuli. instead of advertisers trying to affect behavior, its the government leveraging a social credit system to affect behavior.

refurb4• 2 years ago

One of the drivers of economic development is stability and predictability.

Singapore understands this.

Ownership rules are clear, and if under dispute, the courts are viewed as reasonable and fair. Business rules are predictable, you don't have to worry about making an investment based on assumptions that no longer hold next year.

China is the opposite as of the last few years. It's no surprise capital goes elsewhere.

gary_03• 2 years ago

It's no surprise capital goes elsewhere.

Is it, though? China isn't immune from bad economic policy, but its per capita GDP growth still remains globally impressive[0]. In spite of recent difficulties they're still on an amazing trajectory.

Sure, maybe their chickens are about to come home to roost and they're finally in for a reckoning. I feel like that's the wrong take, though. We've spent the last 30 years with a smirk on our face waiting for China to realize their mistake of eschewing democracy and liberal economics. Somehow they've become the second most powerful nation in the world instead.

They're playing an entirely different game, over there. We underestimate them at our own peril.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_real_GDP_...

chairmansteve• 2 years ago

I saw a comment somewhere that China uses free markets for the benefit of the state, whereas the USA uses free markets for the benefit of private capital.

dyauspitr• 2 years ago

Yep they’ve figured out a viable alternative to liberal economics. I’d say the only weakness is if whoever in charge isn’t a benevolent dictator. Democracy is more robust when it comes to this but the trade off is slower growth and much more inefficiencies.

refurb4• 2 years ago

Somehow they've become the second most powerful nation in the world instead.

I think you are mistaking total GDP with "most powerful".

abdullahkhalids• 2 years ago

Is there any independent confirmation of these numbers? Seem too extraordinary to be believed without extraordinary evidence.

yen223• 2 years ago

The tweet uses "number of companies founded" as a metric, which to me isn't as illustrative as something like revenue/company or similar.

signatoremo2• 2 years ago

This is about startups, which by definition means companies founded in the previous few years, with very little revenue. His metrics make perfect sense. I must say this is a real surprise. Needs to be corroborated by another source.

blackeyeblitzar• 2 years ago

Is there really an incentive for startups in China today compared to 4 years ago? Look what the government there has done to very rich and influential people in just the last few years. Once you have achieved your goal of building a great business, it can all be taken away from you overnight while you rot in a jail cell. Might as well take it easy and at least enjoy your life instead of losing ten prime years to a hard grind for nothing.

Prbeek2• 2 years ago

Do you have a link which business was taken away from an entrepreneur?

aeternum• 2 years ago

Is this data actually correct? Looks China is still doing just fine on the tech side, landing a rocket, LLM model that topped coding challenges, robots that are significantly outperforming boston dynamics.

Is it just that those companies were founded during the peak?

stonethrowaway3• 2 years ago

Trap for young players: don’t read anything in western world on China. It’s mostly propaganda, misdirection, political games and the like. In other words, pure bullshit if you’re not in the in-crowd to pick up the jokes that TPTB are sending to each other by posting absurd things.

southernplaces72• 2 years ago

don’t read anything in western world on China. It’s mostly propaganda, misdirection, political games and the like.

Nonsense. Sure, there's lots of bad reporting about China in the West but generalizing as you do is as absurd as swallowing the latest from Fox News and taking it as gospel. There's also lots of astute, reasoned and well-analyzed reporting about China in the west and elsewhere.

For example, about the region of the world I've been living in for nearly two decades, I see lots of excellent reporting, and much of it comes from external sources; some of the best in fact. It's possible to do this without being within a given system.

What alternative sources should people use for China then? Name a few instead of lazily criticizing to feel superior.

stonethrowaway3• 2 years ago

You ever heard of that phrase “actions speak louder than words”? No? Okay, let me give you an intro then.

The only two sources you can trust on this subject matter are actions of countries, and the the use of the thing between your ears. There is a political game that is played and the only thing that matters are the moves made. All of the words wasted in so-called “news” are irrelevant. That’s just entertainment for the masses devoid of reality. The things that matter are actions and inactions of countries. The straight moves, the misdirects, and the jukes along the way. Whenever you are gloating about how a country is doing something dumb, you are saying that you cannot read the hand they are about to play. Keep this in mind, and act accordingly.

DiogenesKynikos2• 2 years ago

Ironically, Fox News' reporting on domestic affairs in the US is far more reliable than most Western reporting on China. That's not to compliment Fox News, but just to give you an idea of how poor reporting on China is.

If you want to know about China, the SCMP is a decent source. Caixin is also good, but it's more focused on economics. Also, speaking Chinese and following Chinese social media is a thousand times more informative than any Western news source about China.

corimaith• 2 years ago

The actual answer would be peer-reviewed academic articles and studies, or go just go google-translate and read Weibo or Zhihu but these posters won't suggest those because what you will find there isn't going to be pretty.

rurban2• 2 years ago

VCs in China now spend most of their time suing the startups they invested in to get their money back.
Founders are also now required to be personally liable for their company’s loans.
Hard to imagine why anyone would start a company under these conditions.

Whow. They introduced accountability! That would be incredibly harmful to all the crooks out there.

Well done

RestlessMind• 2 years ago

Founders are also now required to be personally liable for their company’s loans.

"Limited Liability" coupled with Venture capital, which was willing to take risky bets, was one of the greatest innovations unshackling a lot of entrepreneurship.

Whow. They introduced accountability! That would be incredibly harmful to all the crooks out there.

Be careful what you wish for. Founders being personally liable essentially means you are going to get only a fraction of startup activity.

rurban2• 2 years ago

Be careful what you wish for. Founders being personally liable essentially means you are going to get only a fraction of startup activity.

Exactly. Limited liability is a big worry. Crooks everywhere

China's startup ecosystem has almost completely collapsed in the last 5 years

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