On Efficiency

http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/201x/2012/06/16/Efficiency

by zdw • 14 years ago

49 18 14 years ago

w1ntermute4• 14 years ago

> It sucks that they’re built in factories in South China that have to rig anti-suicide nets on their buildings.

I don't know about the other statements, but the suicide rates at those factories are actually lower than the nationwide suicide rate in China. It's easy to come up with pithy one liners about the working conditions in third world sweatshops, but the actual picture is a bit more nuanced than that.

dstorrs• 14 years ago

So, you're saying that it's complicated?

andyjohnson03• 14 years ago

" the suicide rates at those factories are actually lower than the nationwide suicide rate in China"

China is a large and complex country. Forty-nine percent of the population is rural [1] and are not going to be working in the factories that make our toys. So I'm not sure what its possible to conclude from a nationwide average suicide rate in such a population.

It might make more sense to compare the suicide rate with that for all industrial workers in China, but I can't find such statistics.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urbanization_in_the_Peoples_Rep...

w1ntermute4• 14 years ago

> Forty-nine percent of the population is rural [1] and are not going to be working in the factories that make our toys.

Actually, the vast majority of factory workers come from rural areas, where economic opportunities are essentially non-existent compared to the jobs offered by the likes of Foxconn.

tomjen32• 14 years ago

Plus it makes no sense. If they really hated it that much, they could simply quit (the Chineese government may be commies but they do not like slavery), so why commit suicide?

w1ntermute4• 14 years ago

> Chineese government may be commies

Yet another common misconception. The Chinese government has not been anything more than nominally communist since the days of Mao. The current Chinese government can be described as a single-party pro-business authoritarian regime with occasional streaks of socialism for the sole purpose of maintaining control. Cornerstones of communist regimes, such as widespread income redistribution and a state-controlled economy, are entirely absent in modern China.

DavidAdams• 14 years ago

I suspect that they commit suicide for the same reason that anyone does. As another commenter pointed out, the suicide rate among Foxconn workers is similar to the rate for the Chinese populace in general, which probably tracks pretty well with the rate of depression. Not all seriously depressed people will commit suicide, but people who are depressed are more likely to commit suicide if they are under especially acute stress and don't have a good support system to help them deal with their current bout of stress and depression.

Rural people who come to the big city to work in harsh conditions away from their families probably meet those two criteria especially well. They're overworked and lonely, and even though they're probably better fed, better paid, and maybe even better rested then they were home on the farm, psychologically they're under more pressure, and there really isn't anyone to keep an eye on them. So they have a day where the harsh conditions or pressures seem too much, and they jump off the building. And once the first person did it, people with a predisposition to suicide have that option hanging there in the back of their mind, and eventually do the same thing.

rauljara3• 14 years ago

"It's complicated"

For some reason, I'm very comforted when other people reach that conclusion about big questions. I think it's because I was much more certain about what was right when I was younger. The more I learn, the more I'm able to definitively say ideas I used to hold are wrong (or incomplete), but I've got nothing to replace them with. What's wrong has become clearer, but what's right has become foggier, nebulous, a many headed beast with a whole bunch of curves and caveats.

My increasing lack of certainty is more than a little unsettling sometimes. I think it's reassuring to hear that other people are going through it as well.

ChrisLTD• 14 years ago

I agree, but coming to the conclusion that you don't have all the answers shouldn't mean inaction. Inhumane treatment of animals, brutal working conditions, and environmental damage are moral problems we should be addressing as a species.

rauljara3• 14 years ago

Agree completely.

tomjen32• 14 years ago

To me it seems a coup out. This may be due to my age, but I have very little respect for wishywashy feel-good conclusions (it is complicated? Great then I don't have to do anything about it, or accept that it is the way things are).

And I am not saying you should feel bad about the world either. Just that it is complicated is not an acceptable answer.

rauljara3• 14 years ago

I know different people can take away different feelings, but for me, it's complicated is the opposite of a cop-out. It means you have to keep on working at it. In my experience, the people who believe they have answers to everything are generally the ones who are taking feel-good shortcuts.

kjhughes• 14 years ago

I think "it's complicated" merely acknowledges the absence of a simple solution.

Solutions are better, but there can be value in observation. We wouldn't want everyone who observes a problem to keep quiet prior to knowing the solution; someone better suited to solve the problem may benefit from the formulation.

johnchristopher• 14 years ago

I feel the same as parent.

I am often in the weird position where I say "I don't know enough" or "I understand some of it but I might miss the whole picture because it's a complex or complicated subject" and others are like "yes, it's complicated but I think that X is right" and I can tell they haven't really understand how complicated things really are.

Sometimes I refrain myself from speaking when I know enough of a subject to say that I don't know enough about it to have a relevant opinion so that people don't get the wrong idea (which would be "he doesn't know anything about it").

DodgyEggplant• 14 years ago

http://www.amazon.com/Slack-Getting-Burnout-Busywork-Efficie...

On Efficiency

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