Does a cave beneath Pembroke Castle hold key to fate of early Britons?

https://www.theguardian.com/science/article/2024/jun/22/does-a-cave-beneath-pembroke-castle-hold-key-to-fate-of-early-britons

by Brajeshwar • 2 years ago

100 31 2 years ago

theguardian.com

jl6• 2 years ago

Over the past few decades, scientists have struggled to explore this intriguing aspect of the settlement of Britain because they have faced a critical problem that affects many major prehistoric sites in the UK. In many cases, these have been stripped of all their sediment, rocks and other materials and so cannot be studied using the armoury of modern technologies that scientists have developed in the 20th century.

One hopes we will leave a few sites undisturbed so that 22nd+ century archaeologists can have a go with their fancy technologies.

recursivecaveat• 2 years ago

Apparently leaving a reasonable portion of every site undisturbed is standard practice now. At Göbekli Tepe they have only uncovered ~5% of the site and are moving very slowly nowadays.

OJFord• 2 years ago

I always think the same thing at these things. But it must occur to the archaeologists too, and maybe they know they're recording everything meticulously and storing samples such that it's still as available as it could be to future tech, vs. discarded surrounding soil/sediment for example that 'could still be used today if only we knew where'? I don't know.

thesagan• 2 years ago

So often I watch/read various excavations with resulting museum/institutional acquisitions and I think to myself, “things may have been undiscovered, but now that they’re discovered these artifacts are on borrowed time, long-long term.”

shiroiushi• 2 years ago

The artifacts weren't in a stasis field when they were buried in the ground: they were decaying there too. Whether that was faster or slower than after being excavated and stored in a museum depends on the artifact's composition and the properties of the place it was stored. I guess in a museum, however, they're somewhat more susceptible to damage or theft since now people know about them, or they could be damaged or destroyed in a war.

extua• 2 years ago

I get the same feeling; every time a museum or archive expands its collection, it's taking on a long-term responsibility for those objects.

Put your discovered objects in a warehouse, now their survival is conditional on the continued funding of whatever institution owns the building. If the items are in fancy climate-controlled storage units, who will maintain the air conditioning and pay the electricity bill for the next ten, fifty, or a hundred years?

I'm sure people who work at archives have to think about these questions on time-scales much longer than those offered by grants or rounds of charity fundraising.

mc32• 2 years ago

One doesn’t want to be the next Schliemann.

whydid• 2 years ago

Anyone else getting some Elden Ring vibes on this?

scandox• 2 years ago

Nah I'm getting Rats In The Walls vibes

mcphage• 2 years ago

Me too, I was wondering if this cave was the inspiration for that story.

red-iron-pine2• 2 years ago

spoiler: they're not rats

kitd• 2 years ago

Pembroke Castle is a fantastic visit if you get the chance. The Welsh castles are dripping with "Game of Thrones" vibes. This one even has its own dragon cave.

Slovv_Dog• 2 years ago

"While the cave beneath the Castle has long thought to be the Lair of 'Wogan', the Castle's Dragon, recent archaeological evidence suggests it was in fact used to host the Lord's War Mammoths and Rhinos"

yzydserd• 2 years ago

For those near Wales, you can visit while the dig continues.

https://www.pembrokecastle.co.uk/events/view/archaeological-...

From 17th June to 12th July there will be an archaeological excavation of Wogan Cavern taking place every day ... we are able to provide our castle visitors with some information on how things are progressing through our daily 'Cave Catchup' sessions. During these sessions a Castle Tour Guide will be in the Great Hall above the cave for approx one hour. So our visitors will be able to chat with the guide who will offer the latest information on the progress of the dig. There will also be the opportunity to see the dig site on a live video feed from the cave while the dig is in progress, and the chance to view replica artifacts of items identical to those that have been discovered at the site.

ggm2• 2 years ago

If you're in the area Manorbier Castle is also great. And Bosherston ponds (not a castle, just nice)

basically all of Pembrokeshire coast is great!

mnw21cam• 2 years ago

There's loads there. Don't forget Carew Castle.

ggm2• 2 years ago

Coastal or near-coastal sites are interesting because they are often very rich for forage food. But they're also complete buggers because of erosion. Coastal sites with hard rock and large caves/caverns which are capable of being continuously occupied for millenia are doubly interesting!

defrost• 2 years ago

With the caveat that caves that were coastal some millennia past may retained their integrity but no longer remain on the coast due to either sea level changes (SE Asia human coastal migration paths are now inland in jungle), and|or land forms rising with glacial retreat (the British Isles were once pressed down with kilometres thick ice).

craz8• 2 years ago

I grew up in this area a long time ago - not quite 40,000 years. This is my local Norman castle!

The obvious history you could see were the castles and walled towns. More recently, lots of ship building in the last 200 or so years, and plenty of WWII sites.

There are many other parts of Pembrokeshire with Stone Age sites that are well known, and there were clearly many people living in this area for a long time before even those later inhabitants

Very cool!

dep_b• 2 years ago

But did you also take a shit in the cave? Could have been your ticket to immortality:

“According to DNA analysis, the site seemed to be inhabited until the late 20th century at least. Their excrement seemed to be rich in nutrients, pointing towards a steady diet of fish and chips.”

blueflow• 2 years ago

You are being down-voted, but the point is valid. Presence of excrement does not mean inhabitation. I think most of us shat somewhere they were not supposed to somewhen in their life.

meigwilym• 2 years ago

There are also some interesting digs going on in some of Cardiff's football fields:

https://www.theguardian.com/science/article/2024/jun/25/preh...

andybp85• 2 years ago

Huh, I (from New Jersey) somehow made it through the British Museum without realizing "artefact" is spelled differently in British English.

holowoodman2• 2 years ago

misread it as "Does a cave beneath Pembroke Castle hold key to fate of early Bitcoins?"

kristopolous• 2 years ago

As did I. The comments confused me.

"Yes, many billion dollar wallets are lost, I don't know how digging at historic sites is going to be of help"

holowoodman2• 2 years ago

well, maybe something about satoshi, the king arthur or mithras of bitcoin ;)

w10-1• 2 years ago

I'm curious (read "doubtful") about the claims for reliably detecting DNA and proteins in soils that are 100K+ years old.

For medical diagnostics, we even had trouble with small samples of blood directly and reliably obtained and stored.

For sandy soils, it's hard to imagine layers remain distinct given the porosity.

Wet soils would invite all sorts of other life.

The article lists no papers. The lead "Dr Robert Dinnis" is listed as an "honorary" (i.e., not active) research fellow at the University of Aberdeen.

It's fun to think about, though.

Does a cave beneath Pembroke Castle hold key to fate of early Britons?

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