RIM rumored to lay off 2,000 more workers soon

http://www.neowin.net/news/rim-rumored-to-lay-off-2000-more-workers-soon

by xtiy • 14 years ago

35 35 14 years ago

DigitalSea• 14 years ago

It was bound to happen sooner or later. RIM have really been struggling to adapt to the changing corporate/business sector. Phones like the iPhone have been biting slowly but surely into the corporate/business sector. I know in many areas like government Blackberry's are still the number #1 choice but for how long?

They've lost direction, it'll be interesting to see if they're still around in a few years time or someone else scoops them up and tries to turn the company around.

HorizonXP14• 14 years ago

I think it's a bit early to write them off. Let's see what happens in 6 months time after the launch of BlackBerry 10. Then you may be proven right, but I don't think that's today.

mindblink• 14 years ago

It's always sad to hear such a formerly great company take such a hit. Wonder at what point is RIM an attractive take-over target for the likes of software giants in search of controlling their mobile destiny, like Facebook.

j2labs• 14 years ago

Or private equity.

HorizonXP14• 14 years ago

To be honest, I don't think a firm is interested in buying RIM until after BB10 launches. And they're hoping it's a failure so they can buy RIM for cheap and liquidate the assets. That's what I would do.

HorizonXP14• 14 years ago

Disclaimer: I used to work for RIM as a co-op student 8 years ago. I am not a current employee, but I have been an avid BlackBerry user and developer.

IMHO, these layoffs are long overdue. RIM has been growing for years under the BlackBerry OS and failed to adapt to a changing marketplace. The iPhone really blew them out of the water, and the BlackBerry Storm was a terrible attempt to try to answer that threat. The BlackBerry Java OS is old, dated, and does not have the infrastructure needed to compete in the marketplace of 5 years ago, let alone today.

That's all changing with the adoption of the QNX operating system on the BlackBerry PlayBook and BlackBerry 10. People may lament the mismanagement of the launch of the PlayBook, and I would mostly tend to agree. However, RIM has delivered a solid base from which to build upon, and they're doing all of the right things. To this day, we're still figuring out all of the nuances of the OS and what can be done with it. Quite simply, QNX is fast, secure, and well-engineered. IMHO, it is leaps and bounds ahead of what iOS or even Android are capable of.

These changes are also being reflected at RIM itself. Their acquisition of QNX several years back was a masterful move. And even though RIM bought QNX, the culture seems to becoming more QNX-like, which is a great thing. (It's almost like a reverse-takeover.) They're adopting many of the lean startup methods in driving their products forward. One can point to the delivery of Dev Alpha prototypes to developers back in early May. Put out a minimum viable product to your early adopters to gather feedback and figure out what to build next. As developers, we have the opportunity to have a platform built to our needs, rather than the other way around. It smacks of lean startup methodologies.

My rambling does have a point: these layoffs are likely in the old and slow departments of RIM's past, related to the older BBOS. BBOS is going into maintenance mode, as it seems like they are no longer developing new features for it and are reserving it for their budget devices. While layoffs always suck because people are losing their livelihood, I think it's a great move on RIM's part to become leaner and more agile. They have the capability to deliver something truly wonderful with BlackBerry 10. The building blocks are all there. I'm personally hopeful they will execute it well, because that's ultimately what will determine their fate, whether they end up like Palm or like Apple. Only time will tell.

oz• 14 years ago

Thanks for your insightful comment. I'm glad to hear this, as I am a BB fan as well. I haven't often used the other platforms, but what I've read in online reviews, the BB is still the king of email. I literally get email faster on my blackberry than in Thunderbird or the Google Apps web interface. Battery life is also stellar.

I'm looking forward to BB10, and plan to buy one when they are released in October. I hope they make the ship date.

Regarding the Playbook botch, I read recently that the reason why the Playbook had to be tethered to a phone to get email and BBM was because the RIM infrastructure only supported mapping an email account to one PIN. Have they corrected this? I understand if you're not able to comment for legal reasons.

Can you tell us more about the advantages of QNX over iOS and Android? Have you tried the Cascade SDK? Did you get your hands on the Dev Alpha?

Oh my god. I just realized what it feels like to be a fanboi. Oh well, RIM needs love too!

HorizonXP14• 14 years ago

Again, I do not work for RIM, I'm merely a developer.

I've used a Galaxy Nexus for the last week or so, and my parents have iPhones. E-mails and notifications arrive on the Galaxy relatively quickly, I would say almost on par with the BlackBerry, with a very slight edge given to BlackBerry. To be honest, if RIM wants to maintain their existing BES/BIS infrastructure, they're going to have to give more compelling reasons than just push notifications, because it's a problem that is almost solved on other platforms. However, as a developer, to integrate the notifications into your own app, it's easiest on the BlackBerry, and more powerful. That may be good enough reason, especially for enterprises.

You are correct about one BES/BIS account only being able to be associated with one PIN. Remember, this is something that was developed nearly 10 years ago. They could never have foreseen the day when people would need multiple devices. Remember, 10+ years ago, convergence of devices was all the rage.

That said, it was a bit shameful that they couldn't make that change, but it is somewhat understandable. I think RIM didn't foresee the need for native PIM apps on the PlayBook, because they figured most everyone would just use web-based clients if necessary. I'll be frank, I have a BlackBerry, so I used the Bridge apps, and I continue to use them.

The multiple PIN situation is, I believe, solved. If you look at the SDK documentation, there are numerous references to PPIDs and PINs. Basically, a user has one PPID which is unique to them, but they can have multiple PINs, each representing a different device.

I've tried the Cascades SDK, and I do have a Dev Alpha. The Dev Alpha is just a smaller and faster PlayBook, with a bunch of new APIs added and a cell radio (I'm simplifying of course). It's a great little device that has made development much easier. That said, a lot of us are really looking forward to OS updates as there are a bunch of niggling quirks. It's very alpha...

I've tried the Cascades SDK, but I haven't done much work with it because I've been focusing on PlayBook apps right now using Qt. Actually, Cascades is built on Qt, and it's wonderful to work with. It truly makes development quick, fun, and easy. You can make some beautiful apps.

Actually, a friend and I have just finished porting PySide to the PlayBook, so you can use Qt in Python. Yes, you can write native Python apps on the PlayBook and the Dev Alpha. It is NOT officially supported, but it is there. I've taken advantage of this in my own apps.

This post is already quite long, so I won't get into the advantages of QNX over iOS or Android. To be frank, my RTOS course was over 6 years ago, and I'm by no means an expert. I would likely botch the discussion.

freshnote2• 14 years ago

I hear people say the BB is faster at email, but by how much? A few seconds? Even if the difference is a few minutes, it doesn't compensate for BBs many other shortcomings.

Is there something I'm missing?

FYI, I'm a long time iPhone user.

moolcool• 14 years ago

I can see it being sound from a technical perspective, but what about market? Do you think people will adopt BBX? WebOS was also technically sound, but was a total failure thus far.

HorizonXP14• 14 years ago

You're 100% correct, it boils down to execution. RIM's (and arguably WebOS') biggest issue is the lack of apps, and they've been doing all they can to engage developers to fix this.

Things like the seeding of devices, free BB10 phone when you develop a BB10 app, App World certification, and $10k revenue guarantee are all inclinations of this desire to get developers on board. They've committed nearly $100 million to developer support and resources.

And it doesn't just end with money. I can engage and communicate with many people within RIM's developer relations team, at any time I want. I have a few on BBM, but that's rarely used as it's quite invasive and personal. I can e-mail any of them, or message them via twitter. Heck, I can e-mail or tweet the VP of Developer Relations (Alec Saunders) right now if I needed to, and expect a response within a week. You can e-mail him too if you want, he doesn't make his e-mail address unknown, he openly advertises it.

And I'm not special by any means. There are more successful developers out there, and less successful developers as well, and we all have the same resources at our disposal. RIM is doing its best to not be a faceless corporation to its developers. Speak to any BlackBerry developer right now, and they're all super excited about the platform. But we are not naive. We know this can go sour, very quickly. RIM has an uphill battle to fight, and we're placing our bets that they're going to win. We could lose, or hit the jackpot.

ojbyrne• 14 years ago

Your "reverse takeover" phrase made me think of Apple and NeXT, which worked out rather well. Perhaps the same will happen at RIM.

DeepDuh• 14 years ago

The thing is that Apple's turnover in the beginning of the 2000s was following a period of stagnation in PC innovation. Microsoft simply did not have to innovate in the OS department and for that reason, they didn't really at least since Windows 2000, arguably even earlier if you only consider GUI innovations.

RIM however needs to turnaround in a market situation where the two hotshots, Google and Apple, have been pushing the envelopes year after year in order to keep ground, while a third contender (Microsoft) is already lurking and waiting for the slightest weakness of the other two. With such a powerplay I don't see how RIM could make it work, sorry.

macspoofing2• 14 years ago

>They have the capability to deliver something truly wonderful with BlackBerry 10.

Here's my prediction, Blackberry 10 devices will turn out to be beautiful, well-made and generally pretty darn good annnnnnnnd it won't make a lick of a difference. I don't see RIM breaking the momentum of Apple and Google.

>Their acquisition of QNX several years back was a masterful move.

How so? In hindsight, it did nothing for them. Playbook, though a pretty good tablet, was a financial failure, and it's taking them until Q4 2012 to re-purpose QNX to phones - in the meantime they are hemorrhaging money, users who are switching to iOS and Android, and developers who don't want to support the current, and dead BB7 platform.

It looks like they should have instead jumped on Android bandwagon and gave Samsung a run for its money.

HorizonXP14• 14 years ago

I'm going to have to disagree with you on many of your points.

>Here's my prediction, Blackberry 10 devices will turn out to be beautiful, well-made and generally pretty darn good annnnnnnnd it won't make a lick of a difference. I don't see RIM breaking the momentum of Apple and Google.

I will agree with you and say that RIM's problem has never been engineering prowess. I would say that RIM makes better hardware than Google's OEMs or Apple. Just put a Bold 9900 beside a Galaxy Nexus or an iPhone. It really holds its own, and I'd say it's better. RIM's problem has always been a) software (which they're fixing b) marketing.

OH GOD HAS THE MARKETING BEEN BAD! Atrocious. I don't have answers on this front, but Apple has everyone beat in this regard. They are the trend setters, not the trend followers. Google can't even compete with them in this regard.

But Apple's momentum HAS been broken. Fact is, there are more Android handsets being sold than iPhones. Is it because Android is a better product? People feel the iPhone 4S is old? I have no clue, I'm not an expert at all. I'm just saying, it is possible to beat them. Not easy, but no impossible. And the fact is, consumers are fickle creatures. They'll go wherever the next best thing is. It may be RIM that day when they sign a new contract. And RIM can easily lose that the next time around.

But if RIM can nail the marketing, they stand a chance.

>How so? In hindsight, it did nothing for them. Playbook, though a pretty good tablet, was a financial failure, and it's taking them until Q4 2012 to re-purpose QNX to phones - in the meantime they are hemorrhaging money, users who are switching to iOS and Android, and developers who don't want to support the current, and dead BB7 platform. It looks like they should have instead jumped on Android bandwagon and gave Samsung a run for its money.

You need to understand that QNX was purpose built to run on embedded platforms. CNC machines, medical devices, automobiles, you name it, it likely runs QNX today. Re-purposing it into a mobile platform for the 2010s and 2020s is not an easy move, but it's a sound one. Moreover, RIM is building it with different goals in mind. To this date, BlackBerry is still the only platform lauded by the US government for its secure mobile needs. RIM would like to maintain that.

And I'm not going to be as eloquent here: Jumping on the Android bandwagon is the stupidest fucking choice any company can make right now, and I'm not even going to detail why. Google it yourself.

rpeden• 14 years ago

Could actually be as many as 6,000: http://business.financialpost.com/2012/05/27/rim-layoffs-cou...

HorizonXP14• 14 years ago

That number seems high to me, but not impossible. This news isn't exactly new though, it's just hitting the presses now. Many of my friends outside of RIM have been hearing this for quite some time.

mukaiji• 14 years ago

a sad day for canadian innovation :(

HorizonXP14• 14 years ago

I actually think the opposite, it's a great day. Get rid of some of the cruft and excess baggage of your previous laurels, so you can focus on the next innovation.

heathkit• 14 years ago

Maybe I'm biased, but to me the story of RIM is another example of the triumph of open source over closed-source solutions. iOS is based on BSD, Android on linux (and heavily leverages the OpenBinder IPC mechanism. I've looked closely at the old blackberry OS and the new QNX based one, and it's amazing how far behind they are.

Seeing the new QNX OS and how they're using it was a real eye opener. They have nothing that even comes close to the features of ICS on their roadmap, and they just don't have the resources or expertise to ever catch up.

I agree, they do make good hardware. But the software side of their house is in the stone age, and the recent acquisitions haven't really helped at all.

jan_g• 14 years ago

Very funny that your view is exactly the opposite of HorizonXP's view in his posts, where he asserts that QNX is much more advanced that either iOS or Android.

HorizonXP14• 14 years ago

Yeah, +1 on this. I wish I could provide better evidence to support my claims about QNX being better, but I really would butcher it. Maybe tomorrow, when I'm less sleep-deprived, I can take a stab at it. Right now, I'm responding with items that I know I can speak about, since they're off the top of my head.

I would actually argue that QNX and RIM's current efforts are more open than before. Prior to RIM's acquisition of QNX, it was open-source, called OpenQNX. They closed it shortly after acquiring it (which doesn't help support my claims :-P), but they've really been pushing open-source efforts.

Cascades is built on Qt, and they've been committing heavily to the gitorious repo. Moreover, they've contracted KDAB to continue those efforts.

If you look at this page https://developer.blackberry.com/native/documentation/oss.ht..., you'll see a list of all the open-source components that they've ported to the platform. Everything is hosted on github at http://blackberry.github.com/.

Look, I know I'm sounding like a BlackBerry fanboy, and it's because I am. I drank the Kool-Aid, and I like it. I want them to succeed. They may not be the company we deserve, but the company we need. We need a 3rd player to usurp Apple's draconian App Store policies, and provide some semblance of quality over Google Play Store.

Again, I think RIM is making the right moves. If you're a developer, you owe it to yourself to check out the resources that they're offering. Follow them on twitter, @BlackBerryDev. Heck, check out one of the BlackBerry Jam World Tours that might be in a town near you (http://www.blackberryjamworldtour.com/).

Research them yourself and draw your own conclusions. You may still disagree with me. That's ok. At least, you'll be well-informed and STILL disagreeeing with me. :-)

sparknlaunch12• 14 years ago

HP announced 27k last week. Ericsson proposing 1.7k. Unsurprising those no longer at the top have to reduce their workforce. RIM has dropped the ball recently (two significant public blunders) and their tablet offering is terrible. Firms are considering using iPhone's instead of the popular Blackberry. Times are changing.

RIM rumored to lay off 2,000 more workers soon

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