NixOS Foundation board: Giving power to the community

https://discourse.nixos.org/t/nixos-foundation-board-giving-power-to-the-community/44552

by Macha • 2 years ago

33 18 2 years ago

discourse.nixos.org

srid• 2 years ago

Related submissions:

Open letter to the NixOS foundation (50 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40107370

The dire state of NixOS's moderation culture (87 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40166912

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Additionally, these r/NixOS submissions may be of interest:

Jon Ringer: "In case I'm unable to return, wish you all the best" (348 comments) https://old.reddit.com/r/NixOS/comments/1cd5fod/in_case_im_u...

Transparency about jonringer’s suspension (153 comments) https://old.reddit.com/r/NixOS/comments/1ceeg8h/transparency...

Thoughts on Jon Ringer's temporary suspension (71 comments) https://old.reddit.com/r/NixOS/comments/1ceiz36/thoughts_on_...

Moderation no-go zones (55 comments; ongoing) https://old.reddit.com/r/NixOS/comments/1cfv8vo/moderation_n...

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Finally, the RFC to improve the situation:

https://github.com/NixOS/rfcs/pull/175

_cenw5• 2 years ago

You forgot this one: https://github.com/NixOS/moderation/commit/e9d67b7efa03e6e9b...

anonfordays4• 2 years ago

That thread just makes me believe srid even more. Salient point here:

"Evidently, Srid's concerns and values, as well as the recommendations and compromises he proposed in response to the charges, were casually dismissed, while other members' concerns and values, as well as their calls for his punishment and sanction, were disproportionately elevated.

And that's unfortunate."

emptysongglass• 2 years ago

This looks like Eelco was forced into a corner by a base of progressive extremists who wield terms like "concern trolling" and "sealioning" as weapons to crush dissent.

There are a number of comments in the thread of this announcement that are gray-text reported as "off topic" despite their restrained and on-topic tone. One commenter, dedguy21, has all of his comments flagged asking what exactly they're protecting minorities from until they finally admit they're a black man.

This is all pretty bad news for discourse in open source projects. And no, I'm not "concern trolling". We see it in action in the announcement thread, where dissenting opinions are pushed out of sight.

That we've come to a point where people are simply washed out of view for "harmful" rhetoric that isn't some particularly dominant viewpoint is a regression of discourse.

_cenw5• 2 years ago

I'd be interested to hear what you think was happening here, and if anything that happened here or could possibly happen could be considered concern trolling or sealioning, of if those are just woke concepts to be disregarded in its entirety.

rgoulter3• 2 years ago

concern trolling or sealioning, of if those are just woke concepts to be disregarded in its entirety.

Using terms like "concern trolling" or "sealioning" definitely marks cultural identity.

Considering the term "sealioning": https://www.merriam-webster.com/wordplay/sealioning-internet... I recall the original comic was along the lines of a sea lion arguing to the point of following someone into their bedroom. -- I think the idea of taking an argument to places where it's not appropriate is universal.

Merriam Webster's definition is much more belligerent: 'something that appears civil, but actually the civility is disingenuous, and they're only arguing to be a jerk to you'. -- I think there's a good reason why e.g. HN guidelines suggest to try and see arguments in a good light.

phendrenad2• 2 years ago

It sounds like the community had power, and now they do not.

lfmunoz4• 2 years ago

As an engineer don't get any of this drama. Can someone summarize what this is all about? From what I had the patience to read people are getting censored on the Nix chat? How does this effect Nix on a technical level? Was the censoring related specially to technical debates?

bennyhill• 2 years ago

It seems to me like the primary claim is that no one is providing people management. I'm not really convinced that anyone wants to do that for free or that anyone technical wants to spend free time engaging with an organization that organizationally identical to an employer.

rgoulter3• 2 years ago

As an engineer don't get any of this drama.

Since the rise of social media at least a decade ago, tech has seen all kinds of "dramas".

Can someone summarize what this is all about? From what I had the patience to read people are getting censored on the Nix chat?

Any summary is going to be biased/motivated by who's doing the summarising. -- There are some summaries in some of the other HN threads. (See some top level comments).

e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40115567 this comment seems to summarize the concerns held by people in the letter.

What seems to have drawn the most heat is "Anduril (builds military weapons) sponsors Nix" and "moderation doesn't ban bad people".

The latter draws a lot of heated discussion, since people frustrated with the moderators both have a "good vs evil" fighting mentality, & a desire for broad powers to ban. (Or on the flipside, I guess: since there are so many bad actors & the moderators don't have power to ban them).

FWIW, I think the term "suspended" would be more appropriate than "censored".

How does this effect Nix on a technical level? Was the censoring related specially to technical debates?

The moderation actions have never been over technical posts.

Some of the open letter signatories have opted to no longer contribute to Nix. One of these was a top-5 contributor to the Nixpkgs repository.

Anduril is a gold sponsor of the NixCon 2024 event.

To the extent that the letter signatories are a significant chunk of nixpkgs contributors, these contributions are lost. -- Perhaps to the extent that most people agree (or disagree) with stuff like in the letter, might discourage people from joining the community depending on how the moderation gets done.

NixOS Foundation board: Giving power to the community

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