William Adams: English Advisor to the Shogun

https://www.historytoday.com/archive/history-matters/william-adams-english-advisor-shogun

by lermontov • 2 years ago

101 53 2 years ago

stuartcw• 2 years ago

I live on the Miura peninsular not too far from William Adams fiefdom. It’s possible to walk up the hill from Anjinzuka Station (The navigator’s hill) and see his and his wife’s grave.

pipes• 2 years ago

I've read shogun and now i'm watching the latest TV show. Both are amazing. Is the wife he's buried with Japanese? And he had one in England too?

lainga• 2 years ago

Yes, he never returned to England. The Shogunate declared "William Adams" dead and "Miura Anjin" born, by which legal fiction he could remarry.

seanparsons• 2 years ago

Conversely I live in Gillingham, where there's several references to him and his history.

JoeDaDude• 2 years ago

For folk interested in learning more about what historians and similar think of the novel, a compilation of essays on the subject titled "Learning from SHOGUN: Japanese History and Western Fantasy" has been made available courtesy of the compilation's editor, Henry Smith.:

https://www.columbia.edu/~hds2/learning/

ProjectArcturis2• 2 years ago

I've always wondered about the accuracy of the book, in part because the junior samurai kill themselves a LOT. They're forced to commit seppuku for being late to their work in the morning. There's a scene where a samurai jumps off a cliff to his death just get his boss's attention (I guess yelling would have been rude).

Also ninjas are depicted as super-powerful badasses. Which fits the legend, certainly, but isn't particularly realistic.

This collection doesn't address those criticisms -- it's more of a literary analysis than a set of fact checks. But I'd still like to know.

riku_iki4• 2 years ago

This collection doesn't address those criticisms -- it's more of a literary analysis than a set of fact checks.

many things likely can't be fact checked, e.g. what kind of warriors/spies ninjas really were.

alephknoll• 2 years ago

I've always wondered about the accuracy of the book

It's a work of fiction. I suspect it is as accurate as a japanese book about america or hollywood's depiction of the wild west.

Early on, the book describes blackthorne as being a head and shoulders taller than the locals. That may be true in 1900s england, but in 1600s ( really 1500s ) england, an englishman was generally closer to 5 feet than 6 feet. And as you noted the comical suicides and extreme behavior of the characters doesn't seem realistic at all.

Shogun probably reflects 1600s japan as well as Fargo reflects 1990s Dakotas/Minnesota ( and that was based on a true story! ).

the_af9• 2 years ago

Also ninjas are depicted as super-powerful badasses. Which fits the legend, certainly, but isn't particularly realistic.

It's very likely ninja (or "shinobi", if you're meticulous) didn't exist at all. There must have been spies and assassins, which are already present in Chinese culture which was a big influence in Japanese culture, but the ninja as a stealthy infiltrator, wearing black clothes and special weaponry is a later day invention.

I actually like that in the remade "Shogun" TV show, the "ninja" attack is replaced by a maid who turns out to be an assassin in the payroll of Toranaga's enemies. Not clad in black or with super powers, just a woman who can handle a sword and attacks by surprise.

Jrjrir48• 2 years ago

That does not mean the book is not accurate, book just has to be read certain way.

If you read modern literature , there is a lot of noise and hyperbole. Like 20% females being raped while studying at college. It comes from well accepted study, was quoted in several journals, but obviously has to be open to some interpretation.

My guess young samurais would prefer seppuku over chores and punishment. Perhaps look into Kyōgen to get some perspective.

stevenwoo• 2 years ago

They tried to fix several historical inaccuracies in the most recent show, including no Hollywood ninjas, and the Japanese already understanding guns because the Portuguese introduced them 50 years earlier but learning cannon techniques from the Adams stand-in instead, though some of the formal gestures (some sitting position IIRC) they told the performers to use the incorrect but popular forms used in Japanese movies and television about the time period. They talk about the changes they made in the after episode podcast, one of the historical consultants sometimes comes on.

mjlee• 2 years ago

James Clavell wrote Shogun which is (very, very) loosely based on this. A fun read in any case.

programmarchy• 2 years ago

Also recently released as a series on Hulu. Pretty faithful to the book from what I've seen so far.

kaesar142• 2 years ago

I’ve felt like it’s deviated quite a bit, but it’s well made nonetheless

andrepd• 2 years ago

It's also an Infocom game!

ttul• 2 years ago

I’ve been in Clavell’s house in West Vancouver. My old professor bought it (a long time ago). It’s a rad mid-century place with Japanese elements. Truly one of a kind.

AnarchismIsCool• 2 years ago

Hypothetically, would he have been on Mizu's list?

kaycebasques• 2 years ago

I'm also wondering if the story is inspired by Adams.

For anyone not familiar with the "Mizu's list" reference, we're talking about the Netflix animated series Blue Eye Samurai. It's got more graphic violence than I usually enjoy but is a really good story.

the_af9• 2 years ago

It's gory but the fight sequences are really well done, almost ballet-like.

One of the best Netflix shows of late, I really recommend it.

the_af9• 2 years ago

I don't think he was guilty of the specific crime that would have set Mizu on him ;)

n1b0m• 2 years ago

Samurai William by Giles Milton is a great read about William Adams

flohofwoe• 2 years ago

He even got his own video game:

https://koei.fandom.com/wiki/William_Adams#Nioh

Don't expect a historically correct storyline though ;)

balls187• 2 years ago

It was a pretty fun game, but has that Team Ninja level of difficulty that I just don't find fun--despite finding FromSoft difficulty really enjoyable.

I had the same issue with Wo Long.

lc9er• 2 years ago

I agree with you on Team Ninja vs FromSoft. I tried Nioh 2 after hearing praise and comparisons to FromSoft games. But I found the controls comparatively complex compared to Souls/Sekiro and it made the game really unplayable for me.

static_void_2• 2 years ago

lol i should have scrolled down. i love this game :)

bane• 2 years ago

There's several interesting stories like Adam's.

In the early 1600s a number of Dutchmen ended up in Joseon Dynasty Korea, which was still recovering from a series of devastating invasions from Japan which ended in 1598 (which are also talked about in the show Shogun). Desperate for military advancement, these foreigners, while entering an officially closed kingdom, where integrated into society as military advisors. The geopolitical realities that are in the show very much affected the region, and the introduction of Christianity, first by the Catholics, and then by other denominations has had profound impacts in East Asia through today.

- in 1627 the Dutchman Jan Jansz Weltevree and some of this crewmates ended up marooned in Korea where they were asked to produce artillery for the Joseon dynasty. Weltevree took a Korean name, got married, has some children and even passed the Korean civil service exam becoming a proper Korean official. [1]

- in 1653 his countryman Hendrik Hamel shipwrecked in Korea with almost 40 other crewmates and eventually met Weltevree who helped translate for them. Like his compatriots, they were tasked with being military advisors.

Hamel eventually escaped Korea and made it back to Amsterdam by way of Nagasaki in 1668 where he published his journals, marking the first Western contact with Korea that was reported back to Europe. [2][3]

- Predating Adams by just a few years, in 1579, an African arrived in Japan with a Jesuit mission. He became a retainer to Oda Nabunaga, one of the three unifiers of Japan. He had a brief but interesting career as a Samurai and was given the name Yasuke, then when Nabunaga fell went back to the Jesuits.

- The Catholic missionary work in Korea started by the Jesuits in 1593, and like Japan became a powerful political and economic force. The Joseon dynasty had enough of it after a while and attempted a series of major purges, killing thousands of converted Catholics until the 19th century. The Church has continued to be a source of revolutionary support in South Korea up until the modern 21st century. But most Korean Christians are not-Catholic today as later missionary groups from other denominations were less politically threatening and seen as potential balances of power against the Catholic influence in Korean. Very notably, Pyongyang was the seat of Presbyterian Christianity before the civil war, and it's well understood that the founders of North Korea, the Kim family, were once a notable Presbyterian family with a few ministers in the line.

1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Jansz_Weltevree

2 - https://archive.org/details/journaelvandeongeluckigevoyagiev...

3 - https://archive.org/details/coreawithoutwith00grif

static_void_2• 2 years ago

William Adams is the protagonist of the excellent souls-like NiOh. That's all the history I need on the man thank you very much.

William Adams: English Advisor to the Shogun

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