German Pirate Party enters its 4th and largest state

http://wahlarchiv.tagesschau.de/wahlen/2012-05-13-LT-DE-NW/index.shtml

by rmoriz • 14 years ago

83 26 14 years ago

wahlarchiv.tagesschau.de

netrus• 14 years ago

There will be a middle-left coalition of the social democrates and the green party. The liberal party was able to recover after beeing down to 2% several weeks ago.

The Pirates once again get the chance to work on their profile from the opposition. This is a very good constellation for the Pirate Party.

philippK3• 14 years ago

where "liberal" in germany means something like "pro business". Very different from the US.

phreeza• 14 years ago

This has been a source of endless confusion for me in the past when discussing politics with american friends. Took me surprisingly long to figure it out.

BjoernKW• 14 years ago

"Liberal" in Germany roughly equals "libertarian" in the US, they tend to be much more moderate, though. So it's not like they're exactly Ron Paul libertarians.

nextparadigms• 14 years ago

Did the term become bastardized by US? I wouldn't be surprised. Being a conservative doesn't mean what it used to mean either, and it has been taken over by "neo-conservatives".

hej2• 14 years ago

That's largest as in most popoulos. 18 million of 82 million people. Federal elections are next year, the party is currently polling well above 5% nationwide, that's the required threshold for entering the parliament.

philippK3• 14 years ago

This is pretty important for the pirate party. Nordrhrein Westphalen is not only the largest state by population. It is also very important politically and economically. The pirates entering the state parliament at 8% will greatly solidify their political base. This will give them a much needed boost when gearing up for the general election in 2013.

Also Angela Merkel's CDU suffered a crushing defeat at only 26%, despite her "heir apparent" Norbert Röttgen running in the state. The state will now be governed by a leftwing coalition of SPD and greens. In all, this is a good day for the national opposition in germany. Germany is shifting to the left, along with the rest of europe.

leod• 14 years ago

Saying that the modern SPD is leftwing is like saying that the Democrats in the USA are leftwing.

philippK3• 14 years ago

Arguably. While it is true that the SPD has departed from its roots as a socialist working class party they can still be considered "leftwing". I don't want to go into too much detail here but Hannelore Kraft has run on a pretty leftwing platform of social policy (offering free childcare, as but one example).

When compared to american politics... pretty much every german party except maybe the FDP can be considered "leftwing" or even "socialist".

quink• 14 years ago

> Saying that the modern SPD is leftwing

In the NRW elections, between the Linke (which are a lot more popular in the eastern part of Germany), the Pirates and the Greens there's 21.6% that's arguably further left than the SPD which, given that and the fact that it's got about 39% of the vote here, might well be considered centre-left these days when looking at the relative spectrum.

muyuu2• 14 years ago

Still disappointed that same old SPD+CDU take largely the lion's share of the vote.

I mean... in a normal situation I'd consider these results very good progress, but given the absolute havoc the EU is in, I'd expect a stronger reaction to the status quo. But nope, the bipartisanship is rather solid still in Germany.

It takes Greece-style catastrophe to really shake things up, it seems.

muuh-gnu• 14 years ago

> It takes Greece-style catastrophe to really shake things up, it seems.

Or more time. The pirates are growing, give them a few cycles. Considering that they never were in a parliament in the first place, 8% is impressive. The FDP, who have been existing for 60 years and have been parts of the goverment countless times, also didnt manage to get more than 8%, so 8% is perfectly fine. The greens are oscillating around 5% for 30 years now.

brazzy• 14 years ago

Make no mistake - of those 8% at least half are protest voters who will vote for whatever new party they see as anti-establishment. The pirates will lose those when they first become part of a government and have to do compromises, or when a newer anti-establishment party appears, whichever happens first. The pirates may still grow a little, but then they will see a sharp drop in votes, unless they can achieve some truly spectacular successes. How the deal with that drop will determine whether they have long term viability.

NameNickHN• 14 years ago

Most people in Germany aren't directly affected by the financial crisis and certainly not like the people in Greece. They have no reason to vote for an alternative party.

muyuu2• 14 years ago

Which is disappointing. People only seem to react when their very own house is on fire.

copx• 14 years ago

German here, I don't get why non-Germans are so excited about the success of the Pirate Party in Germany. It does not mean that Germans care strongly about copyright and patent reform, quite the opposite is the case.

According to polls >70% of the Pirate Party voters are pure protest voters who don't care what the party stands for. Well, except that they aren't Nazis or socialists (the only other anti-establishment options). Most people don't care about copyright laws at all, that's why the Pirate Party is a "safe" protest vote.

morsch• 14 years ago

Parties that are disparaged as being the beneficiary of protest votes tend to shape the public discourse in terms of what people are protesting agains. This has already happened, copyright reform is a much more visible topic now than it used to be. I keep reading arguments I had on the internet 10 years ago rehashed (sometimes badly) in respectable newspapers.

People are at least vaguely aware of the pirate party's position, as much as there is one. If nothing else, I doubt people who are in favor of more expansive copyright would vote PP. And arguably, any anti-establishment vote, if you want to call it that way, is bound to be a vote in favor of copyright reform.

Apocryphon• 14 years ago

I'm surprised that there hasn't been a movement on U.S. college campuses to form Pirate Parties. Behind OWS and the Ron Paul phenomenon you'd think it'd fit right in as a grassroots youth movement.

hej2• 14 years ago

What’s the perspective, though?

Mass protests (ala OWS) were never really a focus of the Pirate Party. They were always about direct political participation (i.e. competing in elections). That’s not so realistic in the US where majorities are necessary to win seats and offices.

The Pirate Party very clearly represents a minority and has no realistic perspective of ever representing a majority. They are also not very geographically clustered. In democracies with proportional elections that’s not so much an issue.

The Green Party in Germany very clearly also represents a minority and has no realistic perspective of ever representing the majority, nevertheless it has been phenomenally successful during the last decades, not only as a opposition party but also as a party with government participation, both on the state and federal level. (The Greens were Gerhard Schröder’s coalition partner on the federal level.)

In the US, much of this has to happen inside existing parties with a realistic perspective (consequently, parties in the US are quite a bit less organized and there is much more fierce competition inside parties). Ron Paul tries to be different within the pre-existing framework of the Republican Party. The Tea Party Movement tries to be different within the pre-existing framework of the Republican Party.

Also, remember that this is only happening in Germany. A very special set of circumstances seems to have conspired there to create that success. This isn’t even happening elsewhere in Europe (at least not yet), not even in countries with political systems very similar to that in Germany. It seems like Germany is the special case here, not so much other places.

German Pirate Party enters its 4th and largest state

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