Psychedelic news: The government fast-tracked LSD as an anxiety treatment

https://www.fastcompany.com/91050854/government-fast-tracked-lsd-as-anxiety-treatment-as-psychedelics-psilocybin-mdma-near-breakthrough

by Johnie • 2 years ago

41 13 2 years ago

fastcompany.com

corry• 2 years ago

Curious if someone more familiar with this space could comment on what exactly is meant when it says the drug in question -- MM120 -- has been "pharmacologically optimized" from the base LSD?

I know the "real" vs "synthetic" distinction is kind of silly w.r.t. psychedelics in general (especially so with LSD since it's only ever been synthetic), but understanding exactly how the new crop of drugs actually differ from the usual suspects would be helpful in evaluating to what degree this is 'just' a business move to offer something proprietary and corner the market vs. it's legitimately better for patients.

That said, I believe the biggest drawback with using LSD in a clinical or therapeutic setting is the length of the experience (12+ hours), so a tweak around shorter duration would make more sense to me.

valec• 2 years ago

it's more accurate to characterize LSD as semi-synthetic, just like thebaine derivatives such as hydrocodone, hydromorphone, and oxycodone. it's a simple one or two step transformation from ergot-derived alkaloids.

it seems like MM120 is literally just the "optimal dose" of the tartate salt (the normal salt LSD is co-crystallized with) of LSD in a pill. it doesn't seem like there's any special delivery device, nor is it any sort of prodrug nor is it a deuterated analogue.

ProjectArcturis• 2 years ago

MM120 is chemically identical to LSD. The "optimization" they claim is just a regulatory workaround aimed at maintaining patent protection for longer.

As far as shorter trips, Compass Pathways is testing psilocybin for depression. Another company, Field Trip Health, was developing an analog of psilocybin with a shorter trip duration, but it doesn't seem to be progressing past Phase 1 trials.

Jerrrry2• 2 years ago

All lysergamides are nearly indistinguishable.

The only reason this exists is because all the other easily modifications and analogs have already been tainted legally.

"Orange sunshine"/ AL-LAD / 1pLSD / LSZ, they are all the same bicycle ride once it hits your tongue.

This is just a patent/legal facilitation.

An exiting one, none the less. :)

anigbrowl• 2 years ago

MindMed’s MM120 is set to compete with such drugs as Spravato, a type of ketamine that, for now, is the only FDA-approved nasal spray for treatment-resistant depression. When Spravato came to market in 2019, its manufacturer Johnson & Johnson charged $4,720 to $6,785 per dose.

These prices are ridiculous.

soupfordummies• 2 years ago

Good grief!

AFAIK a "hit" of LSD is like <$10

IDK what the street price of a ketamine dose is but I would be surprised if it was more than $20.

Then again you can't bill those to an insurance company...

pantalaimon• 2 years ago

Ketamine is like 40€/g (so ~4€ for a strong dose) and that’s usually from medical supplies

Jerrrry2• 2 years ago

I feel a moral obligation to inform anyone reading that:

The first and the best, synthetic dissociative discovered to be an analog of Ketamine, called "Methoxetamine" / MXE, has since been made illegal (shame, it is a euphoric, warm, bladder-safe, highly coveted and respected chemical, RIP); there has been 3-4 generational iterations in the immediate field that yield similar affects - especially the lingering narco-metabolites that leaves the user with the "warm afterglow" after a single dose, which is the mechanism of action for it's remarkable, immediate, and 2-week lasting of it's depression-treating behavior.

Their legality (grey) is dubious but so is the Federal Analog Act.

They are also extremely cheap and relatively easy to find, often on the clearnet/"research chem" communities and purchasable with a credit/debit card.

Their safety profile is well understood - the only common issue is the short "manic" phase some report, but that is nearly exclusive to classic PCP.

>We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed, by their Creator, with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of property[happiness].

ganzuul2• 2 years ago

Different drugs are useful in different stages of life.

Please don’t give LSD to children.

yboris• 2 years ago

I've not heard of people doing that - is there a reason for your concern?

My understanding is that the brain undergoes important development until around 25 years old, so it's best to push drug use to after. If someone insists on doing something earlier, before 16 years old is probably a terrible idea.

ganzuul2• 2 years ago

I mean to say young people anxiety is very different from old people anxiety. LSD is probably good for people my age but not a panacea for anxiety. Young people require people my age to be acting like we know something.

throwaway632• 2 years ago

Related discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39631071

omgCPhuture• 2 years ago

So MANY things:

* "I've heard" is a nonstarter, I have heard lots of things, like that there is a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, Santa Claus, etc. Do you take all your information about lurking dangers by hear-say? Anyone can have a psychosis, just stay awake for 72+ hours, hey presto.

This chilling of public discourse has lead us to routinely do absolutely dumb stuff: Since WHEN did we IGNORE dangers instead of studying to understand, not ignore and think we just can avoid them cluelessly? This suicidal concept of ignoring a danger + "just say no" crap is insane, in fact, suicidal! If we identify a potential threat we should study it and make it easy to research and insights free of political stupidity should be easily available. Oh right, we kind of do... It just takes _a lot_ of reading:

* https://nlm.nih.gov

* https://maps.org - I recommend LSD: My problem Child. By one Dr. Albert Hofmann. It is available as a free download on PDF, legally.

* https://unodc.org

* Critical thinking, LEARN IT.

Read and understand the subject matter.*

LSD-25 refers for the base form of the compound of Lyseric Acid Diethylamid, the number 25 refers to the extraction # Dr Hofmann performed from his experiments on a fungi found on several crops that provide the key ingredient to bread. LSD is a psychotropic substance, not a narcotic. It had promising use in psychiatry treating many illnesses, such as alcoholism, it does not however form "Manchurian Candidates", quite the opposite. Most people become kinder. more considerate and if you give it to soldiers, they toss their guns to play in the grass and trees. There is a british army video showing exatly this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=776lDlNopJU

LSD can come in several forms. LSD is also known as Lysergide d-tartrate, MM120 patent merely patents a fast delivery vehicle in consert with therapy. They use Lysergide d-tartrate, a form not new since last millenium. LSD itself as well as commonly known solid forms, such as tartrate cannot be patented. As any child, the ones we are fond of has many names:

https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/Lysergide-tartrate...

The patent itself is not on LSD (lysergice d-tartrate). It has existed for a long time. again:It is on the delivery mechanism, a melting tablet, and the therapy treatment that follows.

LSD-25 refers to a liquid base form as it was extracted in Dr.Hofmanns 25th extraction. It is then in liquid state. Most substances are really refered to in base form without a qualifier, this is often completely wrongly used. I will use a more familiar illicit substance to demonstrate:

* Cocaine means cocaine base (an oil), often called freebase as it is derived by freeing the base from the hydrochloride salt thus returning it to the original cocaine oil form, or "freeing the base". Not water soluable.

* Cocaine hydrochlorde is the nose candy. Once bound to the salt of hydrochloric acid itforms Cocaine Hydrochloride , which water soluble and sniffable.

* Crack is simply freebase made by freeing cocaine base from hydrochloride salt in a boiling water solution using electrons from baking soda. Crack refers to thesound the rock makes as it is heated because it is an oil and has tiny droplets of water inside of that "crackles".. Throw oil in a hot pan and drop some water droplets on (careful). Crush and dry the rock, no more crackle sound and crack -> just calcified base cocaine (freebase). It is made by putting 20ml of water in a small glass in a water bath and letting it reach boiling temperature. 1g of cocaine is then added and let simmer a minute before the small glass is swirled around. The Cocaine HCL melts at 98C when dissolved in water. Now the oil has to be captured and moved into the same place. 0.3g of baking sdoa is added and the glass swirled until you see all the oil lumps collected in one place. The baking soda has free electrons easily availble a this tempterature, so we borrow some, Once cooled there will be a rock, solid at room temperature. If you taste the water, it is salty because the hydrochloride salt and most of the baking soda isleft behind. The rock formed inwater and thus has tiny amounts inside of, which causes the crackle sound that gives it the name Crack.

* You can simply dissolve the "crack" rock in acetone and react with hydrochloric acid and Cocaine hydrochloride will appear like a blizzard. 1g (free)base, 20ml acetone, 5 drops of hydrochloric acid, 36% is enough(home depot), stir gently 4-5 times and stop the second the blizzard appears, it is Cocaine Hydrochloride appearing from the clear solution in front of your eyes, it is magical.. Let react 1hr. Filter off and let dry. Hey Presto: Cocaine hydrochlorde (the kind you sniff).

* Same goes for Methamphetamine - base is liquid, crystal meth is d-methamphetamine hydrochloride. D refers to the Dextro enantiomer is the stereoisomer (meth)amphetamine- THe other one is called Levo. The Correct wording of (meth)aamphetamine is really therefore DL-Methamphetamine / DL-Amphetamine. Both are oils before being salt bound in an Acif-Base reaction. Typically Methamphetamine, often dextro-methamphetamine, is reacted with hydrochloride acid to form salt. The DL forms will always be powders since mirror images of molecules (stereoisomers, DL) don't fit to build crysaline structures seen in d-methamophetamine hydrochoride aka methaka Crystal, etc. Since it is all dextro enantiomers the salt crystals can stack and build crystaline structures aka "glass" aka "shards".

While the above example uses the Acid-Base reaction as vehicle to show how a molecule can be changed back and forth, there are many methods one can make solid form from liquid base. A tartrate is a salt or ester of the organic compound tartaric acid, a dicarboxylic acid, which is what they react the liquid base LSD to make lysergide tartrate or LSD tartrate OR lysergid tartrate (crystals).

Likewise LSD can be bound to any number of salts, etc. Any powder-form will be LSD+something. LSD is commonly found as a tartrate salt, which is water soluble. The Acid-Base reaction came to mind, but I digress:

https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Chemical_struc...

Samples were prepared at 250ug in liquid solution under the rand name Delysid, in liuquid solution. It works wether you absorb through tongue, skin, nasal membrane, eat it in, drink it, in base, salts or disolved liquid forms. LSD is sensitive to light, oxygen, touch, temperature. Since we are told it is 240ug, aka 250mikrogram, we know that they have taken the water soluble LSD-tartrate weighed it and dissolved it in water. The brand name was Delysid.

The Sugar Cube provides protection from all that as well as a natural preservative, the blotters...no so much? If it comes on blotters, if nothing else it is degraded. Some of us pick it up in cute little bottles.

The man behind "Turn On, Tune In, Drop out" also got the federal ban on marijuana overturned - in his own trial over a frame-up. They forgot they framed a Harvard professor, a Dr. Timothy Leary, and not "some acid junkie". Marijuana has since been demoted off the UN Narcotics list onto the psychotropic substances lists, there are 3. LSD exists here, along with MDMA, Caffeine, Alcohol & more.

Most of the horror stories you have heard are absolute BS or stem from the psych wards they locked patients in cells on jumbo doses. It has Criminally Insane Assholes (CIA:) written all over it.

Commonly distributed by blotter sheet, sugar cubes, microdots, and dripped on candy. AFAIK lethal dose in humans is not demonstrated. It is remarkably non-toxic to our health and active in the most minute of doses.

There are non hallucinogenic LSD derivates like bromo-LSD that are shown to provide relief to cluster headaches.

Many variants have appeared on the black market, 1P-LSD being exceedingly common, some things sold as LSD are highly toxic, nBOMEs, for example.

It does not make you a zombie, murderer or even those eggs in that pan on your american healthcare-via-idiot-advertisement (eggs: this is your brain.on drugs:). In fact, YOUR brain LOVES DRUGS. It runs on them. Serotonin, Dopamine, bla, bla, and in fact doses you with opioids all the time, we call them endorphine, but really it is just morphine we call endorphine since "endo" means that it is made inside of us. I guess that makes us all junkies.

You of course realise Tylenol kills over 100 000 people a year in the US alone? That is the numbers of deaths at the hight of of the ! "opioid crisis", which is..well Iran lives next to Afghanistan which produces 80% of the world's illocit heroin. 40% of that ends up in Iran and has so for decades. THey have a opioids crisis, one ongoing for decades now. Bayer, famous for their Aspirin product, invented it and heroin, just 11 days apart!. Chemically known as diacethyl morphine, 11 days apart. It was marketed as Oover-The-Counter (OTC) Cough Syrup for Children without that habit forming morphine.... You can treat heroin addiction using Ibogaine assisted rehabilitation.Ibogaine is another, powerful hallucinogen and makes for a introspective 24hr trip, it is not fun. It also helps kick-starting the natural enforphine production the heroin abuse shut off. You should look up the 3D version of the molecule, it iis insane and as off last I checked we have no chemical way to mass-produce it.Ironicallyopium poppiees can be legally grownwhere I live, you can buy the seeds at your local gardening shop. Mostly grown byold hosuewives for their flower. Nobody does it for the opium here.

My $0.02:

If you can do it safely, I highly recommend it. It is great, but there are other great psychotropic hallucinogens. I prefer N,N-Dimethyl Tryptamine. What is safely? Excellent, you are finally asking the right questions.

I have had amazing help from LSD, but also great joy and fun. The inside tip on why psychedelics work is simple: It allows you to thread a new path instead of that one you are stuck on. This is where the THERAPY comes into the picture!:) In other words it makes you more susceptible.

You may have a fearful horrible trip, but that is likely an indicator you did not follow the rules:

* Set & Setting - Mind SET and trip SETTING. - and tripped recklessly.

* Read up on the drug, trip experiences, lab rapports. * Be well rested. * Have a sitter. * Keep a stash of tranquilizers(xanax:), just in case someone panics and ruins the trip for everyone else! Most people will have great experince if "set & setting" rules are followed!:) * LSD MAY NOT BE FOR YOU, NOBODY IS FORCING YOU DO TAKE IT!

* You can check your LSD purchase with labs such as Energy Control to verify you have the real deal. They take bitcoin.

I like my trips inside, comfortable coushy seating, good music and absolutely no god damn un-muted cell phones. It is a 7hr-ish ordeal and you can feel having bent your mind when it is over, so I like to take a few valium and sleep.. When I wake upi make or ormyself a mega breakfast and venture outside to take in how "new" everything feels. I prefer Light surroundings, preferably daylight when tripping.

I recommend reading Tom O'Neal's book CHAOS, it will shed ligh on much BS around LSD and blow your mind.

Ignorance is dangerous & stupid.

Psychedelic news: The government fast-tracked LSD as an anxiety treatment

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