Toyota was right about hybrid cars

https://www.businessinsider.com/toyota-hybrid-cars-ev-sales-growth-prius-bz4x-2024-2

by Brajeshwar • 2 years ago

33 50 2 years ago

Having bought a Toyota hybrid for the first time about 2 years ago, the value proposition was overwhelmingly in their favor. Cost the same or less as equivalent gas cars in their class, with about 30% to 50% less gas usage, meaning ongoing costs are way lower too.

It was of course way cheaper than any reasonable electric car 2 years ago too, still probably is, and charging infrastructure was terrible where I live back then, still mostly is (but getting better).

I think the years and years of PR around their top tier reliability helps a lot too. I guess the biggest gripe is the looks of their cars, they're basically boring, kind of ugly and utilitarian. But all of the above together kind of nails a segment of car buyers which is "I don't want to give a shit about my car, I need it to work well, not burn the planet too much, not cost a lot, and get me where I need to go", which is probably a pretty large segment.

ein0p4• 2 years ago

People who don’t own electric cars usually don’t realize this, but if you own a home, you don’t really need “charging infrastructure”. For regular commute of ~15 miles each way a regular household outlet will suffice. Not having to drive anywhere to “refuel” is pretty nice IMO. As is not having to spend the better part of a day every year on scheduled maintenance because, well, none is required

lotsofpulp3• 2 years ago

Regular gas vehicles don’t need the better part of a day every year for scheduled maintenance either. Full synthetic oil only needs to be changed after 5k miles, and most people can get away with 8k miles. It is at most 1 hour at a mechanic, but probably less than 30min at an oil change specific place like Valvoline.

Cabin and engine air filter is a 5min job anyone can do too. The only other regular thing needed is tire rotations, although that applies to EV also.

Obviously, not having to deal with all that gas related drivetrain is great. But is it worth an extra $10k to $20k or more? Probably not for most.

brtkdotse2• 2 years ago

they're basically boring, kind of ugly and utilitarian.

Good, it’s what cars should be. “Car culture” is a plight on society and the sooner we break free of tying our self worth to our cars the better.

infotainment2• 2 years ago

I do still wish they’d make a good pure EV.

A pure EV Prius would automatically be the best EV in the American market, IMO.

dragontamer8• 2 years ago

Prius is synonymous with the power-split device (the "differential" like device that allows the EV + Gasoline engine to work as a team to drive the car).

Toyota's pure EV is bZ4X, and correctly is a new name to distinguish itself.

ManuelKiessling• 2 years ago

"bZ4X" has to be the most "we don't really want anyone to know about, talk about, or god-forbid actually buy our car" name ever.

FooBarBizBazz• 2 years ago

That power-split planetary gearbox is great. They "have CVTs", literally, because it's a transmission and it's continuously variable, but it's not a steel band and roller that'll turn into metal shavings. Indeed, a planetary "CVT" is simpler and more reliable than a traditional six-speed automatic. But people get triggered by the word "CVT". We should instead say "steel band" and "planetary gearset" or something.

mint23• 2 years ago

Not really. Had they started making electric vehicles when bmw did (and kept with it unlike bmw) instead of their half effort late entry, they would have had several electric models selling very well at this moment. But they didn’t try so they don’t.

dragontamer8• 2 years ago

I think you miss the point.

The large number of hybrid vehicles, especially in the low $25k new segment (ex: Corolla Hybrid) are selling like hotcakes right now, even when EVs and other vehicles are having trouble today.

EVs are $5k, $6k, $9k+ lower priced in just the last few months across multiple brands. They're getting chewed up in terms of profits right now. Its why EV stocks (TSLA, RIVN and LCID) dropped so much in the past few months. The numbers are in and... they're ugly. EVs are doing poorly.

--------

Hybrid sales rose much more quickly than EV sales last year, up 65% to more than 1.2 million, according to Cox Automotive. While Americans bought the same number of purely battery-powered EVs, that segment's growth was just 46% year-over-year.
Shoppers in the market for a hybrid are also much more likely to pony up more cash for these cars.

So Hybrids are growing faster than Electrics. Furthermore, Hybrids are cheaper to make, and sell for higher prices. Its turning out to be an excellent business decision for Toyota.

patientzero• 2 years ago

You speak as if Toyota wouldn't move the market themselves and needs the pricing Tesla needs to make a profit. I also don't understand the concept that hybrids are cheaper. They are cheaper because it is Toyota making a more complex car than a non-car maker could attempt.

mint23• 2 years ago

If Toyota had released an EV 11 years ago like bmw and kept iterating on it then today they’d have several models with very competitive costs, likely significantly cheaper than the model 3 but with far better build quality.

Are they successful with their hybrid sales, yes, but had they invested in EVs then they would be successful in both EVs and Hybrids, selling both like hot cakes.

I’d say their bet on hybrids was the conservative safe one that did okay except one inconvenient thing no one has mentioned yet. Their bet wasn’t hybrids alone as the future of cars.

Their bet wasn’t on hybrids alone, their bet was on hybrids and hydrogen and it’s obvious the hydrogen cars are an unmitigated disaster.

Had their strategy been hybrids and EV instead of hybrids and hydrogen, they would have two hugely successful next gen car lineups. Instead they have one doing well and one that is a disaster going nowhere.

I mean honestly, imagine if they’d put even a fraction of their determination into EVs that they been focusing on the mirai. They’re so dedicated to making it happen that they’re nearly giving it away for free once the $15k of free fuel is factored in

cheema33• 2 years ago

I have owned hybrids and now only buy EVs. People buying hybrids today, due to cost difference with EVs, are overlooking total cost of ownership. My Prius was a very very complex machine, compared to my EV. Over the years, it cost a lot more to maintain and drive. Factor in regular maintenance + gas that EVs don't need. I also had to replace the catalytic converter after 7 years on my Prius. My 5-year old Tesla doesn't have one.

rafaelmn• 2 years ago

New Prius comes in very close to Model 3 with subsidies around here. Price isn't the issue for me - charging is.

Hybrids let me take road trips without worrying about that nonsense while letting me commute on a charge.

themadturk• 2 years ago

I've had a Prius since 2009. Maintenance needs have been identical to my previous cars, if not less.

chrismcb• 2 years ago

Won't you have to replace the battery on the Tesla soon? My understand is a Tesla battery is good for 10-20 years and a Prius catalytic converter for 10+ Both cars share a lot of the same maintenance, like tires and brakes. And you've got to pay for electricity(in both terms of time and money)or gas. It isn't as cut and dry as you make it

mathgradthrow• 2 years ago

in principle, The plug in hybrid is better than an EV in every way. the weight of an entire ICE+gas tank is less than the weight of 70 kwh of battery. You get all of the benefits of being a hybrid in terms of energy recapture, and all the range of an ICE in rare situations. You can also make 10 of them per pure EV.

AtlasBarfed• 2 years ago

Strategically this was true a decade ago. Tactically/revenue-wise yes they'll make a lot on hybrids. Maximization of carbon impact of battery production would have been best with hybrids if the policy was properly aligned 20 years ago.

Hybrids should have been heavily incented or outright required in the year 2000. With the prius and insight showing such gains ESPECIALLY in city driving, the DoT for every major market should have told car companies to get 90% of new consumer cars as hybrids, and given them 20 years for trucks and heavy equipment.

But now, with the arrival of mass production sodium ion, hybrids are a legacy technology. Sure hybrids will have a role, but it is an inevitably diminishing one, just like ICEs.

I don't believe Toyota is right about anything with BEVs. They missed the EV boat and strangely keep pushing hydrogen. It shows shocking inertia and dysfunction in their management, and it has for ten years now.

Toyota likely has the size and resources to catch up. They can probably essentially buy a Chinese EV company or forge a really strong partnership to close the gap, but it will require management direction to become less muddled.

Toyota was right about hybrid cars

Related Stories