I was rejected because I told my interviewer I never make mistakes

https://www.askamanager.org/2024/02/i-was-rejected-because-i-told-my-interviewer-i-never-make-mistakes.html

by chedar • 2 years ago

41 34 2 years ago

askamanager.org

eschneider• 2 years ago

The candidate seemed delightful.

jeffrallen• 2 years ago

Yeah, it's a real "hire, bit not on my team" kind of situation! /s

silisili• 2 years ago

This is pretty obviously either a troll, or slightly more likely the site making up fake letters to respond to them.

pavel_lishin• 2 years ago

She told me she had a technical background (although she had been in management 10 years so it’s not like her experience was even relevant)

I want to say that this is absolutely troll behavior, but there's actually dingdongs who think like this - and who say things like this! - in the real world.

But yes, if I read this on reddit's r/aita subreddit, I would assume this was mid-grade fiction.

manquer• 2 years ago

there are many people who do behave like this , however I am not sure if anyone with this kind of behavior would write to online column seeking advice ?

JohnFen• 2 years ago

I participated in a team interview a few months back with a candidate who had about 3 years of experience and an outsized opinion of his abilities. Immediately after he had clearly demonstrated that he wasn't as skilled as most people would be with three years of experience, he straight up declared himself to be a "senior software engineer". To experienced, working devs.

My team exhibited an amazing ability to avoid bursting out laughing until he left.

It's reasonably rare, but every so often you get a real gem.

ryandrake• 2 years ago

I would also have thought that the letter was fictional, had I not worked directly with a handful of people exactly like this in tech. Zero E.Q. and zero idea about how much that it's holding them back. The idea of stalking the manager's manager on LinkedIn, figuring out their E-mail, and contacting them to tell them that they are wrong: Wow, but totally believable if it were one of the few "Raging Arrogant Engineer Jerk" personalities I've actually met in real life.

dmd• 2 years ago

As someone who interviews people… definitely not a troll. There are SO MANY people like this and they’re so incredibly sure that they’re right that they absolutely DO write letters like this, because they’re SURE they’re going to be told they’re right.

buffington4• 2 years ago

I've interviewed hundreds of people, possibly closer to 1000, and can confirm: there are actually people like this.

I once asked a candidate how DNS worked. It's something that even junior candidates for this role should have known, but this candidate tried to insist that "DNS worked because of the DOM" (as in, the browser DOM). When asked to clarify, and given plenty of chances to save themselves, they continued to insist, claiming that "Javascript and React handled all that." That stopped their candidacy immediately - less because of the lack of technical skills, and more because of their unwillingness to even explore the possibility that they were wrong. You can teach someone how the DOM and DNS work, but not someone who's unwilling to admit when they're wrong.

more_corn• 2 years ago

This is clearly a made up example to illustrate intellectual arrogance and distain.

I have interviewed a person who displayed those traits. He wasn’t as rude as described here, but maybe as clueless. He aced the technical(10/10) but nobody on the interview panel wanted to work with him(0/10) He got a unanimous “no”. Probably the only time I’ve seen so many people settle on the same conclusion in an interview.

He said he’d interviewed 4 times before (I was looking at his packet so I could see he was counting phone screen and individual conversations as an interview each, one red flag among many). He asked if he hadn’t gotten the job previously due to asking about confidential information. (Packet said “not a culture fit” which is code for not hired due to personality). I just said “I assure you, that wasn’t it”. I suspect that to this day he doesn’t know why he wasn’t hired. You can’t very well come out and say “it’s because you’re a dick”

marklubi• 2 years ago

I had a similar experience but with an intern... well, actually two.

One was technically savvy, would go overboard with technical solutions, always had an answer or workaround for everything, and rarely would listen to any advice given. Was probably a 8/10 technical (impressive given his age), but a 0/10 on the want to work with scale.

The other was smart and very humble. He would come to me for mentorship, ask questions, and when nudged in the right direction, answer questions with revelations to himself.

The humble one has gone on to found a business and get his first exit (there will likely be more with him). Last time I checked, the arrogant one has been bouncing around jobs for 15 years.

maximinus_thrax• 2 years ago

I told her maybe she made mistakes as a developer but since I actually went to school for it, I didn’t have that problem.

LOL. I also remember the CS-33B - Bulletproof your career - how to never make mistakes 1-0-1 class from college /s

This reeks for rage bait. Maybe askamanager's engagement numbers are going down and now they have to post content like this?

rk06• 2 years ago

It could be rage bait. But there are absolutely people who are 10/10 on technical scale and 0/10 on "would want to work with" scale. I have met and dread them

worthless-trash2• 2 years ago

If you have ever had the unfortunate luck to work with them, they can frequently have great technical answers , but drag out issues as long as possible for no logical reason.

Rebelgecko• 2 years ago

I had a similar but less dramatic experience interviewing someone once. I asked about a time where something went wrong on a project, and he sakd that had never happened to him. I tried asking the question a few different ways, giving him lots of opportunities to come up with something ("Did you ever have a teammate on a project in school who didn't contribute their fair share? Get sick before a deadline"?) and he insisted that he's never had any problems like that.

It was super weird for me. I guess maybe there's a school of thought that you should never admit to anything less than perfection in a job interview? But I wouldn't want to work at a place that expected perfection 100% of the time

quectophoton• 2 years ago

I asked about a time where something went wrong on a project, and he [said] that had never happened to him.

I can see my past self responding similarly just due to being unaware of what interviews are usually like.

Nowadays I know that "no, they are not necessarily asking for a time when someone got fired for something, or for a time when the project was down for so long that people got mad; here they mean 'wrong' in a more lax way, like a time you had to rollback something even if nobody noticed, or a time a refactor went longer than expected (or didn't complete), or a time a query was being a little slower than expected, even if it didn't impact anyone".

My past self to my current self: "But surely that's normal? Those are small things, and it doesn't seem like anything went wrong in any of them."

My current self to my past self: "Still, that's the kind of thing they want to know. Now shut up and be thankful you at least get the chance to talk to someone instead of getting ghosted."

I tried asking the question a few different ways, giving him lots of opportunities to come up with something

I thank you for at least trying to rephrase the question just in case the response was only due to not having had that many interviews.

That the candidate wasn't able to pick up on your intentions is on them. I hope they at least thought about the interview after they did it and try to see what they could have done better.

RcouF1uZ4gsC• 2 years ago

I told her maybe she made mistakes as a developer but since I actually went to school for it, I didn’t have that problem.

Sounds like a jerk. I definitely would not hire the person.

If you are developing anything interesting, you make mistakes. Getting the right abstraction is somewhat of an art. I have made things too flexible and it was a pain to use, and I have made things not flexible enough and it was a pain to adapt. I have denormalized my data too much and had too much repetition, and I have normalized my data too much and had performance problems with too many joins. I have spent too much time automating a five minute task that I did rarely, and I have spent too much time toiling away at something manually that I should have automated.

If you aren’t making any mistakes as a developer, you aren’t growing.

GianFabien• 2 years ago

I have interviewed applicants with that sort of attitude. Needless to say, I didn't recommend hiring them either. Eventually the hard knocks of real life might chip off some of the sharpest edges. I doubt whether their unfortunate co-workers ever get on well with them.

VikingCoder• 2 years ago

I told her maybe she made mistakes as a developer but since I actually went to school for it, I didn’t have that problem.

I'd like you to remember these words.

Because the next time someone asks you about a mistake you made, you can tell them this story.

buffington4• 2 years ago

I've interviewed candidates as arrogant as this, and they never make it.

It does remind me of a candidate who did though, for the exact opposite sort of behavior. One of the people on my panel wasn't very creative, and asked the cliche "what's your greatest weakness?"

The candidate thought about it for a moment, then apologized, saying "I'm just trying to pick an interesting one to talk about, because I'm sure I have them." That got me listening, as it was perfectly honest. Eventually the candidate said something like "one thing keeps coming to mind, and it may not be a great answer, but I can't let it go - I think my greatest weakness, at least when thinking of this role, is how challenging it will likely be for me for the first month as I get to know the people and company and process."

That's how you answer that question should you ever get it. With honesty. If someone asks about your mistakes, think of a big one, one where you learned a lot. Humility sends out a strong signal about how well you'll work with others, which is easily 50% of what's important to thrive at most orgs.

worthless-trash2• 2 years ago

Maybe the obvious does need to be pointed out, telling your interviewer you never make mistakes is a mistake.

buffington4• 2 years ago

I keep remembering interviews with candidates where the candidate was the exact opposite of being like the arrogant candidate from the article.

I don't recall the question that brought out this story, but the candidate was describing why the startup he'd cofounded failed. One of the reasons, he shared, was "because of the day I went to jail."

You hear that from a candidate and your next few minutes just got way more interesting.

Candidate said he and his family woke up to a SWAT team raiding his house and seizing all his electronics early one morning. He immediately assumed his cofounder had been doing something shady, and decided on the spot to end the venture. His instincts ended up being accurate. Instead of paying taxes to the IRS, his cofounder had been paying that money into his own pocket, according to the candidate.

That's not so much a mistake, but the candidate shared what was the mistake: he never got a lawyer. He just accepted the consequences as cofounder, presuming that "equal partner meant equal responsibility."

He got hired, and has been rock solid for the four years we've worked at the same place.

theonemind• 2 years ago

I don't find it that strange for someone to claim they never make mistakes. However, I would press for details as to why they never make mistakes. They probably don't take many risks, or work on the same or repetitive stuff for a long time, or don't consider "forced errors" mistakes, like a client gives you a bad spec and you implement it and they get mad. You could consider that you made a mistake in not pressing on the bad spec, but you could also just consider it a "forced error"--you didn't "make a mistake" the same way a chainsaw doesn't make mistakes. They might also consider an unreasonable deadline a 'forced error' or some sort, where they don't consider themselves to have made any mistakes if they indicated insufficient time and cut corners under 'duress'. Someone might take issue with that and call that a mistake, but it actually seems to open up an interesting line of questioning as to why they don't believe they have made a mistake.

_moof• 2 years ago

It's either delusional or naive to think you never make mistakes. Everyone does.

koliber• 2 years ago

My favorite interview question is “What have you changed your mind about in the past 6 months?”

Usually it leads to a short and interesting conversation, either about their answer, or about change mindset in the meta level. Sometimes there are people who refuse to answer, evade, or give an answer that blames someone else for something. This is a big red flag.

You can’t learn if you think you know everything. If you never change your mind, you’re not learning and growing.

If someone told me they never make mistakes I would take it as a joke at first. If they insisted like the person in the post, the interview would end shortly.

awelxtr• 2 years ago

What about...

"nothing, I'm so entrenched in my confort zone that nothing has really changed in the last 6 months, that's why I'm here, to change that"

jfengel• 2 years ago

I do really like the idea of "Tell me about a mistake you made?" rather than "What is your greatest weakness?"

The latter is begging them to lie to you. I cannot imagine what answer it is they're hoping for. Some weakness that's bad enough to seem honest but not too bad to hire?

But asking about mistakes can tell you a lot:

* It shows that you understand the complexity and difficulty of real development.

* How do you go about solving problems?

* How will you react to other people's mistakes?

* Most importantly, it's an opportunity to tell a story. Communication skills, not just facts.

naikus• 2 years ago

Haha, saying "I never make mistakes" obviously was a mistake!

I was rejected because I told my interviewer I never make mistakes

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