If there is a next generation crypto wallet, what are you expecting from it?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38800751

by blackbeam • 3 years ago

6 22 3 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

* Banking level security

1. I don't have to worry about managing or losing private key / seed phrase

2. In the worst case where someone hacked my wallet, MFA would kick in to protect my assets from being drained

3. I can get warnings about scammers and suspicious recipients pre-transaction

4. Hopefully I can get insurance cover for my assets

* Easy onboarding

I don't need to write down private key / seed phrase, just use my Google / Twitter / Email / Phone to log in, that is it.

* UI/UX

Current crypto wallets look exotic compared to our day to day finance apps.

pedalpete2• 3 years ago

I assume you're familiar with ledger stax? I have a pack of tangem cards, but haven't used them.

The thing is, don't most reasonable exchanges offer the things you are asking for? I don't find exchanges any worse than using an online trading account (which it is more than a bank). In fact, I think exchanges are usually providing better security than banks/trading platforms I've seen.

Are most people going to have so much crypto that it makes sense to store it themselves rather than have an exchange do it?

blackbeam4• 3 years ago

People lost their assets on FTX, I personally lost some assets on OKCoin.

pedalpete2• 3 years ago

Yes, and people losing their savings when their banks went under used to be a thing as well.

That doesn't mean it isn't the most likely place for most people to hold their savings.

With any cold storage, you have to consider where you are going to keep the cold storage device. Are you going to run your own bank/vault (which was the original intent of crypto), or are you going to find a trusted party wit the correct protocols in place which will manage that for you?

For the people who have billions in crypto, the cost of managing their crypto probably makes sense. But at what point do you trust a 3rd party who's sole purpose is managing crypto?

I'm sure there is a world where the best way to store crypto is with a distributed service, rather than a wallet.

And note, I am considering the OP to be referring to a hardware wallet. Maybe that's wrong.

colesantiago• 3 years ago

I am expecting them to not exist next year or at all.

vinniepukh• 3 years ago

just as crypto-people are dogmatic and exagerrate the supposed benefits of the technology, so too can the anti-crypto-people be as dogmatic

crypto wallets will exist next year and in 10 years

i don’t think cryptocurrency will be adopted for anything but gambling or speculation, but oh my, its product fit for those categories is extremely tight

gregjor• 3 years ago

Except for UI/UX your list doesn't enumerate shortcomings of crypto wallets, but rather inherent problems with crypto -- the philosophy, the implementation, and the people involved.

I would like to say I don't expect crypto or crypto wallets to exist for much longer, but debunked and dumb ideas sometimes have a life of their own, like astrology, and especially so when you factor in human greed and credulity.

mteam882• 3 years ago

Huh? Every single one of these things is being worked towards by crypto companies.

1. Seed phrase security -> Ledger, Safe Multisig [3], Privy (sso for wallets) [0]

2. MFA for crypto wallets -> Ledger, Safe Multisig [3]. Both recommended by the crypto community.

3. Warnings pre-transaction for suspicious signing requests -> Fire Extension includes warnings [1], wallets like Rabby [2] include presigning warnings, Safe Wallet [3] includes simulations builtin

4. Wallet insurance -> A few startups [4], provided by crypto exchanges, generally not needed with other precautions in place.

* Easy onboarding

1. Easy onboarding -> Account Abstraction in general [5], Alchemy infrastructure [6], Privy wallets [0], Coinbase Wallet-as-a-Service [7], Magic.link wallets [8] and MANY more .

* UI/UX 1. Hard to use/exotic -> Crypto IS exotic. Wallets like Coinbase Wallet [9], Rainbow Wallet [10] abstract away most of the crypto details. Phantom Wallet [11] has a great UI/UX.

[0] https://www.privy.io/features/auth [1] https://www.joinfire.xyz/ [2] https://rabby.io/#:~:text=Pre%2Dsign%20check%20for%20Securit... [3] https://safe.global/ [4] https://boostinsurance.com/platform/crypto-wallet/ [5] https://metamask.io/news/latest/account-abstraction-past-pre... [6] https://www.alchemy.com/account-abstraction-infrastructure [7] https://docs.cloud.coinbase.com/waas/docs/welcome [8] https://magic.link/docs/authentication/overview [9] https://www.coinbase.com/wallet [10] https://rainbow.me/ [11] https://phantom.app/

PS. "Debunked and dumb ideas" is a gross generalization. Please provide details about how "crypto" has been "debunked" ?? Human greed fuels the capital markets of the USA. All innovation boils down to human greed at some point. We all want "cheaper, faster, easier" so we innovate to get there (insert crypto here.)

blackbeam4• 3 years ago

Thanks for the detailed comments, I think this is what we need for a proper discussion, instead of those non-sense comments.

darthrupert2• 3 years ago

I expect the underlying infrastructure to use about or less than 0,01% of the energy the Bitcoin network uses.

It should support micropayments, i.e. should have nearly non-existent payment fees in perhaps another mode. This implies no fixed portion in the payment fee.

The payment fees also in non-micropayments should be small (less than 1%) as well to make it competitive to credit cards.

A flat 0,5% for all payments would make it interesting from a financial standpoint. Probably quite challenging technically, but that's where the potential edge against current payment providers could be.

greenhopefully2• 3 years ago

The MultiversX blockchain has very small fees (now it is approximately $0.0035) The network is using less than 0.01% of the energy Bitcoin uses. I believe it's carbon neutral.

darthrupert2• 3 years ago

I'm not sure about the economics of micropayments, but it's not obvious to me if that's low enough. A percentage without a static fee would obviously work, but that of course implies that the cost of handling a single micropayment should be essentially zero.

mteam882• 3 years ago

Crypto != Bitcoin.

The leading innovative payments chain is Solana. 0.5% flat fee? I can do you one better < $0.001 for ALL payments regardless of size. It already exists today and is handling hundreds of millions of $ of volume.

If you want to see a Venmo-like application on Solana that is live, see Code [0].

PS. There are other blockchains that offer similarly low ( < $0.01) transaction fees. Solana is being used by Visa [1] and other leading payment infrastructure providers. (:

[0] https://www.getcode.com/

[1] https://usa.visa.com/solutions/crypto/deep-dive-on-solana.ht...

zubairq2• 3 years ago

I predict that the next generation crypto wallet will come from large companies like JPMorgan, Lloyds Bank, HSBC, Microsoft, Apple, X, etc... they will make the crypto wallet look just like a normal app and provide security, insurance, etc and they will deal with the seed phrases, scammers etc in the back end. So basically things will look almost the same as today's banking apps, except the back end will be powered less by traditional FIAT money rails and more by crypto technology

blackbeam4• 3 years ago

Yup, next generation crypto wallets could come from

1. Large companies

2. Large open source communities

3. Some existing wallets could continue to grow and pivot

Which one would you prefer?

zubairq2• 3 years ago

I would prefer 2) and 3) but I think 1) will happen unfortunately

greenhopefully2• 3 years ago

`3. I can get warnings about scammers and suspicious recipients pre-transaction`

The xPortal mobile cryptocurrency wallet, developed by MultiversX, features Guardian security, akin to two-factor authentication. It also sends notifications for your Guarded account in case of unauthorized attempts to access your funds.

`I don't need to write down private key / seed phrase, just use my Google / Twitter / Email / Phone to log in, that is it.`

You don't log in with social media accounts, but you can save your secret phrase on Google Drive or iCloud, encrypted automatically of course.

mikewarot2• 3 years ago

Nobody is every going to offer insurance on crypto. It sounds to me like you just need an FDIC insured checking account.

If you're going to hold crypto, you need to treat it as you would a huge pile of cash, with physical security, and obscurity. The only nice thing is that you can have a backup copy of the crypto private keys and seed phrase, unlike cash.

pants2• 3 years ago

Not sure where you got the idea what nobody offers crypto insurance. Lloyd's of London, one of the world's oldest and largest insurers, offers crypto insurance[1], just as one example. You also have decentralized options like Nexus Mutual.

1. https://www.lloyds.com/about-lloyds/media-centre/press-relea...

mikewarot2• 3 years ago

Frankly, I'm shocked that Lloyds, of all people, are foolish enough to get into this game. It would be like insuring a pile of gold, that can be stolen through the internet.

I'd expect the premiums are quite high, they don't say on their web site.

solardev• 3 years ago

I'd want it to be run by some org I can trust, maybe some nonprofit or the UN, or at least someone like PayPal or Stripe or Google. Not a bunch of shady cryptobros trying to start the next pyramid scheme.

Then again, I think it's easier to just use a regulated bank. What good is insurance from a crypto company? That sounds like just another way to scam users before the insurance company folds after a year and the founders escape with everyone else's money.

Primarily I just want an easy way to send and receive money between individuals in different countries. Western Union sucks and Wise is a pain to set up. I would never want to keep funds in crypto, but I'd totally pay a transaction fee and exchange rate to easily send or receive money from foreigners.

devaiops9001• 3 years ago

This probably the dumbest post ever submitted to this website.

If there is a next generation crypto wallet, what are you expecting from it?

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