Hospital treatment of Covid-19 with low-dose hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2052297523000914

by t0bia_s • 3 years ago

12 16 3 years ago

Simulacra• 3 years ago

I thought hydroxychloroquine was disproven as total junk science. I recall seeing on the news during the pandemic that it was ineffective. What has changed?

redog• 3 years ago

...This result is remarkable because treatment with hydroxychloroquine was abandoned following the results of the SOLIDARITY and RECOVERY trial, which did not find a clinical benefit [20,21].

cantSpellSober4• 3 years ago

That's mentioned several times in the paper.

despite the controversy surrounding its use, treatment with hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin remains a viable option

Also keep in mind there were only 400 people in the treatment group, and the study concedes:

our study reports on outcomes from the first half of 2020, before vaccination became available and before the emergence of new COVID-19 variants. Since that time several drugs, like remdesivir, molnupiravir and nirmatrelvir/ritonavir were approved for the treatment of Covid-19

TacticalCoder2• 3 years ago

I thought hydroxychloroquine was disproven as total junk science. I recall seeing on the news during the pandemic that it was ineffective. What has changed?

Once again: what has changed is the lies of mainstream media and politicians during the covid outbreaks being exposed.

Here's a study on 30 000+ patients made by doctors, not politicians. The results are without any appeal: HCQ works and it works wonder (which many knew and many knew that for whatever reason there was a cabal trying to silence doctors saying HCQ was working):

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37861932

jongalt19623• 3 years ago

Early on in the pandemic a couple of doctors around the world reported that a combination of drugs, including hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin plus zinc was successful in treating Covid-19. As long as it wasn't too late, i.e., the patient wasn't already on a ventilator. Those 2 drugs are inexpensive and plentiful, so they could've stopped the pandemic early on, before the lockdowns and vaccine mandates. I leave it to you, to speculate why this knowledge was suppressed.

cantSpellSober4• 3 years ago

"A couple of doctors?" As the paper mentions, earlier studies indicated no benefit:

treatment with hydroxychloroquine was abandoned following the results of the SOLIDARITY and RECOVERY trial, which did not find a clinical benefit

"Those 2 drugs are inexpensive and plentiful"

Also mentioned in the paper

there is a continued need for widely available, effective and affordable treatment [instead of nirmatrelvir/ritonavir]

jongalt19623• 3 years ago

Yes, I only recall a couple of doctors - there may have been more. The actual question to ask though, is how many patients? Another question to ask is who financed the "SOLIDARITY and RECOVERY" trial that you seem to place so much faith in. And was it scientifically valid? Too much "science" these days is corrupted by economic, political and ideological incentives, so I am suspicious of all of it. This leads me to trust anecdotal evidence more than I should, but what else is there? Even though anecdotal evidence is a relatively weak form of evidence, it is still evidence and it still counts for something. The only alternative is to do a deep dive into every allegedly scientific study out there, that one is interested in, and evaluate it.

themoonisachees• 3 years ago

Oh, please. Everyone and their dog heard about hydroxychloroquine in the first 3 weeks of the pandemic. People also tried using it without approval from a doctor, with very little succes, much like the controlled trial that showed it was not effective. This knowledge was "suppressed" because people tend to try not to lie to each other.

TacticalCoder2• 3 years ago

You're plain wrong.

Here's a study on 30 000+ patients made over the years (published in 2023). HCQ works and is particularly effective:

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2023.04.03.23287649v...

"Early Treatment with Hydroxychloroquine and Azithromycin: A ‘Real-Life’ Monocentric Retrospective Cohort Study of 30,423 COVID-19 Patients"

FWIW HCQ+Azithromycin is now a recommended treatment for suspected Covid patients.

bigger_inside• 3 years ago

it's no great conspiracy, it's the normal working of the bureaucratic/legal structure, as any organizational sociologist will gladly tell you:

An emergency approval of the vaccine was only legal if there are no other working remedies. So, it was legally necessary to certify that there were no other working remedies; so this is where the bureacratic attempts were directed,

This directs the legal and business bureaucracy to seek no official confirmation of such an alternative, which means you don't, of course, invest officially in tests that could come to a different conclusion; you invest in those that do (medical tests are famously influencable, but that is for another thread). At the same time, the other remedies remain "unproven" except by evidence presented by doctors who use it, who can be bureaucratically dismissed as "but this is not a proven remedy, and we can't recommend it" - formalspeak, we all know it.

Again, not a conspiracy theory by any means, just the normal, sociological workings of organizations we are all familiar with on smaller scales. (Of course, it does require us to dispense with the childish notion that organizations work for nothing but our benefit, with integrity and honesty; of course they don't, none do, but that also doesn't mean they work AGAINST out benefit. At the time, it was understandable to think "we have to help the vaccine get approved, and diversions would cost lives".)

The fun part about sociology is that we all have implicit knowledge that this is how organizational bureaucracies work. For some reason, we're also castigated when we say this out loud.

peteradio• 3 years ago

What is the point exactly of requiring no other available options in order for emergency approval if you just sandbag the available options in order to gain emergency approval? Shouldn't we look closer at where that requirement comes from?

Hospital treatment of Covid-19 with low-dose hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin

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