Looking to the Past to Ban Legacy Admissions

http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2008/11/20/legacy

by robg • 18 years ago

15 16 18 years ago

cpr• 18 years ago

No leg to stand on for private institutions. They are free to set whatever preferences they like. (And they all have them, especially for athletes at schools with sports dynasties, etc.)

sharkfish• 18 years ago

I recall Affirmative Action being challenged (Univ of Michigan?) successfully.

Not sure how, qualitatively, race-based admissions is different from letting rich people jump ahead of the line.

tokenadult2• 18 years ago

One way that race-based admission is different, especially at state universities, is a specific constitutional prohibition (the fourteenth amendment of the federal Constitution) against state action that doesn't provide equal protection of the laws on the basis of race.

robg2• 18 years ago

Not true. Even private institutions receive millions in government funding. Are they willing to give that up for a few hundred students each year?

time_management3• 18 years ago

It depends on how much they receive from those legacy families.

Just being a "legacy" doesn't entail that one receives a massive boost in admissions. There are a lot of "legacies" out there and they can't all be admitted. The Ivy League legacy whose father sends a $100 check each year only gets a small bump: maybe 50%, or the difference between a 10% vs. 15% chance of admission. It's much more advantageous to come from a brand-name East Coast prep school, which brings the chance of admission, even to Harvard, well north of 50%.

Children of five- and six-figure legacy families are auto-admits, but they have so many advantages that this shouldn't surprise anyone. Most people who complain about academically mediocre "legacy admits" at elite schools are describing students who come from such privileged backgrounds that they would be attending elite schools even if legacy admissions were abolished, because of all the other socioeconomic factors in the admissions process.

gojomo• 18 years ago

All sorts of politically-popular restrictions have been applied to any institution that takes a single dollar of federal funding -- as project grants, student scholarships, or even student loans that have to be repaid. So there's hardly any fully 'private' institutions left which have the freedom you describe.

Prrometheus• 18 years ago

Bush's secretary of education is even an advocate of standardized tests for college students, like they have in high school. The federal government doesn't have the constitutional power to impose them, but it can withhold funds from institutions that don't make their students take the tests.

If the bureaucrats have their way, our colleges will one day rival our primary education in quality.

bilbo0s• 18 years ago

On October 25, 1854 sub ordinates of Russian General Pavel Liprandi looked on in horror as a mass of allied cavalry charged positions they had lately taken up in and around an area in the Crimea known as Balaklava. Initially, believing the cavalry men to be intoxicated, the Russian response to this threat was delayed several moments. Regaining their countenance, Russian commanders ordered the enemy cavalry charging towards them destroyed. Russian artillery subsequently opened fire, raining destruction on the enemy cavalry. Les Chasseurs d'Afrique, as shocked and surprised at the developing scene as the Russians, hurriedly organized themselves and rode to the assistance of their bumbling Anglo counterparts, providing cover for the retreating cavalry men.

At the end of it all, the attacking cavalry was devastated. Less than half of the allied cavalry men committed to the initial attack made it back to their lines. Of this number was their commander, a man by the name of James Thomas Brudenell. He returned, and considered himself to have given it 'the old college try', went to his yacht, waiting in Balaklava harbor, and ate a champagne dinner.

This cavalry unit is known to history as the 'Light Brigade'. It was commanded by wealthy men who had purchased commissions that more capable, but less wealthy men could not afford.

We bear witness to the results of our modern day 'Charge of the Light Brigade' daily in our newspapers, on our favorite internet news sites, on our favorite blogs, and via Fox and CNN.

My point is that the current crises will necessitate some rather unpalatable structural changes for the United States. The abandonment of legacy admissions may be one of them.

potatolicious2• 18 years ago

IMHO the whole concept of legacy admissions (among other things) is distinctly un-American. The USA is all about hard work, perseverance, and talent. This is what has made America great, and it is only through this that America can remain this way.

More and more American society resembles the old European oligarchies of old, the one the people fought so hard to free themselves from. Patents of nobility are gone, but the aristocrats remain all the same.

It saddens me - I've known so many people who had so much raw talent, but never got the help they needed to really excel. I know people who got poor grades in school who could hack circles around me. Yet here I am in college, surrounded by a bunch of pompous idiots who are only here because mommy and daddy could afford to send them to the best tutors, and boost their marks so far beyond what normal, but talented folks get.

Many of the most talented developers I know never got the chance to go to a prestigious school, or even study CS at a formal level. Yet the people around me by and large can't hack their way out of a wet paper bag. The talented, truly obsessive hackers don't get any help from society, but the career-seekers who aren't the least interested in the code they write are. There's no justice.

antiform• 18 years ago

I'm of the belief that it doesn't really matter for the type of people you are talking about.

If these "lost" people are as talented and ambitious as you claim, they will have no problem succeeding at whatever field in which they choose to apply themselves. If they could "hack circles around [you]," then they will have no problem hacking one of the most peculiar and challenging systems of all, the steps needed to be successful in everyday society.

If they are that capable, then surely putting together a decent college application and getting into a good school or getting a great job would be piece of cake. You might have to bite the bullet and do things like create a resume and apply for jobs or take the SATs, gather the necessary papers, and submit your applications, but sooner or later smart, industrious people will realize that you don't get anywhere by complaining about your situation.

Talented, truly obsessive hackers don't need help from society, because they have the fortitude and resourcefulness to succeed on their own. You can't stop them from learning and working on hard problems. The "career-seekers" can take their safe, well-paid programming jobs at big companies and buy their cookie-cutter house in the suburbs next to all the other "career-seekers," with their white picket fence, 2.5 kids, and a dog. Good for them. But the kinds of hackers you are talking about would not be happy with that kind of lifestyle. They would probably want to be on the bleeding edge, to be a visionary or trendsetter rather than somebody who blindly walks along path paved before them. I believe that if you have a passion as strong as this, the rejection letters from jobs or colleges will lie and fade to ashes, forgotten as you blaze ahead into the life that you forge for yourself.

wallflower• 18 years ago

"As the number of applicants has soared in recent years, premier schools admit as few as 1 in 10 students, a far more selective rate compared with a generation ago. To make room for an academically borderline development case, a top college typically rejects nine other applicants, many of whom might have greater intellectual potential."

http://www.projo.com/education/content/projo_20060917_brown9...

Looking to the Past to Ban Legacy Admissions

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