Learning from competition

http://www.marco.org/2012/03/08/learning-from-competition

by johns • 14 years ago

113 48 14 years ago

benackles• 14 years ago

I don't have time to read the article, but I added it to my reading list on Readability. Oh, the irony. Even though I prefer Readability, Marco has done a fabulous job with a team of one.

nathanhammond• 14 years ago

For apps which let you select from the list of installed fonts I came up with a script to install fonts onto devices:

http://www.iosfont.com/

bkorte• 14 years ago

This doesn't happen often enough.

amartya916• 14 years ago

Absolutely. Respect for the competitor and open acknowledgement where it's due. Also, Instapaper is a one man show, and this piece made me have greater respect for him .

The article also links to his earlier post on Readability, which too was a welcome break from what one generally tends to see in the tech. scene.

Adding a link here (again), in case people missed it: http://www.marco.org/2011/11/16/readability

jsankey• 14 years ago

The Google bashing at the end makes no sense. On the one hand he mentions that Google have copied things from Apple. On the other he claims Google seem to think they don't need to change anything. Which is it?

It's pretty clear to me that each new version of Android takes inspiration from iOS (and vice-versa, not to mention things they've both seen in WebOS). I think it's great -- the competition is definitely driving both platforms forward. Methinks there is some prejudice at play if you can't acknowledge this.

cageface• 14 years ago

Up until the last paragraph I thought he was leading up to the conclusion that Apple loyalists would do well do be less dismissive of Android and admit that there might be some ideas worth borrowing there. I don't personally take sides in the iOS vs Android wars but people like Marco and MG Siegler and John Gruber seem to be much less objective in this regard than most Android fans.

patrickaljord• 14 years ago

Same here, the complete redesign of all Google main web products and the latest ICS show that Google is ready to make some big change such as making design one of the most important features of all of their products. There's also the changes that Larry Page brought to management etc. Marco is really anti-Google and it shows. I don't care if he's pro-Apple or pro-Whatever, I just don't understand the constant need to bash Google like that.

MaysonL• 14 years ago

Design is about usability, which Google's redesigns seem to me to ignore in favor of looks.

VengefulCynic• 14 years ago

Marco goes to some length in the most recent episode of his podcast Build & Analyze (http://5by5.tv/buildanalyze/67) to grapple with the reality of Readability as (to his mind) his first competitor with a design ethos that seems to be in direct competition with his own. It's fascinating stuff, especially from the perspective of a developer with relatively little formal background in design.

pooriaazimi• 14 years ago

I listened to a couple of his podcasts a few months ago and it was a real pain. Hypercritical is very good though, and I tune in every week.

Has build and analyze improved any? Because I like Marco and I think he has some good points here and there... It's just that his podcast was waaaaay whiny...

akent• 14 years ago

No, not improved. The recent episode where they talked about cars for practically the whole show was the end of it for me. Unsubscribed.

dtran• 14 years ago

This reminds me of Ben Horowitz's post "Lead Bullets":

The issue with their ideas was that we weren’t facing a market problem. The customers were buying; they just weren’t buying our product. This was not a time to pivot. So I said the same thing to every one of them: “There are no silver bullets for this, only lead bullets.” They did not want to hear that, but it made things clear: we had to build a better product. There was no other way out. No window, no hole, no escape hatch, no backdoor. We had to go through the front door and deal with the big, ugly guy blocking it. Lead bullets.

dannyr2• 14 years ago

"But Google has — publicly, at least — always seemed to think that Android is the best at everything and its dominance everywhere is inevitable. I wonder: do the higher-ups at Google really not see the flaws in their products? ... Google seems to think they don’t need to change anything"

Wow. Cannot disagree more. The past year has seen Android 2.3, 3.0 & 4.0.

Google is changing at a faster pace than its competition.

benologist2• 14 years ago

3.0 onwards might as well not exist since some 95% of the market is excluded from those versions.

It's not even really fair to call it change when nothing changed and nothing is about to change for almost every Android user.

rimantas• 14 years ago

Interesting, how pointing this out does not go well there. Really, just compare numbers of iOS5 and ICS on the devices in users hands. Both came out about the same time, but difference is immense. Of course, there are real and valid reasons why it is so with ICS, but at the end we still have what we have.

Fruntal• 14 years ago

The international version of the Samsung Galaxy S II, themost popular Android handset last year, will receive the ICS update on March 10 (tomorrow). All the major Android OEMs have promised updates to the their most popular phones. It's not happening as fast as users would like but it's a bit misleading to say 95% of the market have been "excluded" from those versions.

fpgeek2• 14 years ago

It is fair to say that Google hasn't solved the more difficult issues in the Android ecosystem, but it is totally unreasonable to say "nothing changed".

Even if you discount the updates that are about to start (as Fruntal highlights), the next generation of Android phones has been completely transformed by ICS. That is clearly the low-hanging fruit, but it is still real, meaningful change.

sneak• 14 years ago

Your argument would have carried a lot more weight if, instead of talking about the new versions of Android (that only further the fragmentation of the installed base), you'd offered up their purchase of Motorola Mobility and hardware business (which will reduce fragmentation, at least for direct customers).

dannyr2• 14 years ago

We still don't know how Google will use Motorola to improve Android.

According to Google, Motorola will still run independently.

hef19898• 14 years ago

One can even get the impression that everybody is allying against Google these days. Their acqustion of Motrola was kind of a wake-up call, Google geared up for the IP wars going on. And since there are only three major players in that field, Apple, Microsoft and Google, it seems the first two try to single out the last one and change the game by eliminating competition. The reputation of "Don't be Evil" Google cultivated is making things more complicated, Google simply can't ba as agressive as the former two. On the other, if combined with the proper PR, it make life difficult for others.

jstedfast• 14 years ago

Stop and think about your argument and you see one of the biggest gripes people have with Android: the inability to actually upgrade their devices to the latest and greatest.

Why hasn't Google learned this from their competitors yet?

I just got Android 2.3 for my Samsung Galaxy S and don't expect to EVER see 4.0 on this phone, even though it's only 18 months old and no doubt plenty powerful enough to run it.

If I had gone with an iPhone4, I'd have iOS 5.1 right now. I wouldn't have to wait 9-12 months after release to get it.

This is a HUGE weakness of Android devices. HUGE.

No, Google is not entirely to blame, but they don't seem to even be trying to fix it. They seem to be perfectly fine with this gaping flaw.

billmcneale• 14 years ago

Interesting article if it wasn't for the mindless and completely out of place Google bashing at the end. Apple fanboys just can't restrain themselves, can they?

fckin• 14 years ago

Yes, the Apple fanboy... that calls Apple a bunch of brainwashed sheep.

Nice random Apple bashing. You Microsoft fanboys can't resist, can you?

pm90• 14 years ago

You do realize that you did the exact same thing that you are criticizing, don't you?

sad_panda2• 14 years ago

Yeah, if this isn't ironic, I don't know what is.

"Learn from your competitors."

narrow• 14 years ago

Henry Ford once said that "the competitor to be feared is one who never bothers about you at all, but goes on making his own business better all the time." Microsoft's history of wallowing in denial whenever something new emerges to threaten its legacy product is indicative of the reason why they always react defensively vs Apple. Google on the other learned from IOS and was quick to go on the offense with Android.

homosaur3• 14 years ago

I think the most obvious case where this might be wrong in Microsoft's case is the Xbox. The original one was a salvo against Sony into a collapsing market. The new one is maybe the best general use consumer set top box on the market. Roads don't always lead you where you think they will, but if you focus on quality you can often come out ahead.

Of course, Microsoft has billions to sit on while they iterate. Most companies don't have that luxury.

rdl3• 14 years ago

Exactly -- I was really critical of the xbox at the time, but now I have a PS3, Google TV, Apple TV, and XBox 360, and the one I use for gaming the most is the XBox. PS3 for bluray, and probably Apple TV (2012) for netflix and other streaming content (due to 1080pness; using the PS3 for that now). Microsoft is relentless and has deep pockets and more than adequate technical skill.

I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft manages to get an xbox-level win out of Windows Phone just by throwing absurd resources at it, along with great integration with their platform, as RIM self destructs.

Especially if Microsoft can use Nokia to pitch itself as the "European alternative" to Google or Apple, that plus enterprise is a pretty big protected niche.

sad_panda2• 14 years ago

"That’s why Microsoft is so much more interesting today: while Google seems to think they don’t need to change anything and Apple’s customers are brainwashed by marketing, Ballmer has shut up about Apple publicly and Microsoft is making radical changes."

He must not have seen the smear videos Microsoft has put out about Google recently. They certainly haven't shut up about their competitors.

rbarooah4• 14 years ago

He said they'd shut up about Apple, and instead are making radical changes.

Perhaps the fact that they continue to publicly attack Google means that they don't think they need to respond with a strategy change.

rbarooah4• 14 years ago

How is that worthy of downvotes? Seriously - it's not attacking anyone, it's an attempt to explain the difference in Microsoft's behavior towards two competitors, and it helps to clarify Marco's position.

fpgeek2• 14 years ago

Not to mention the fact that the reason Microsoft has shut up about Apple publicly is because Apple isn't nearly as an important competitor for Microsoft as they used to be.

In mobile, Microsoft's competition is Google, not Apple. Meanwhile, on the desktop, Microsoft's biggest competition is its own installed base, not the Mac.

homosaur3• 14 years ago

The bigger problem with Instapaper AND Readability for me is that you are still kicking designers and their intentions to the curb. This is why I still think these services will not be widely supported by content providers and they will flock to aggregation services like Flipboard, because of the opportunity to brand your dang content.

These clients will continue to be dumb readers where Flipboard and (future) ilk will allow content providers to craft rich, custom experiences. The weapons of design are powerful and in the wrong hands can create a horrible experience but companies still want that chance.

And if Marco actually did learn anything from competitors, he would actually hire someone to make an Android client instead of continuing to ignore a huge section of the market for not meeting his delicate sensibilities.

rdl3• 14 years ago

The main reason I use instapaper is to escape from the horrible design decisions made by the original designers and publishers.

homosaur3• 14 years ago

There are upsides and downsides, certainly. I don't think that say... the Guardian pages on Flipboard are ugly, though. They are simple and quite beautiful while still retaining the house style. They are still focused on reading, after all.

rbarooah4• 14 years ago

Marco has explained why he doesn't make an Android client. It has nothing to do with delicate sensibilities. It's pure economics.

His business model is based on selling a paid app, and based on his numbers, doing that on Android won't pay for its development.

rdl3• 14 years ago

I'm thinking of doing a mobile app for our security tool, and as far as I can tell, trying to come up with a working security model for the Android version is impossible. iOS is trivial, and if I cared, I could do a blackberry app (but don't).

So iOS > Android for people who actually pay for software, or for anything where you want to keep credentials or data secure against loss/theft of a phone. You could maybe get away with using Good or something on Android, but that makes developing an app a lot harder.

rbarooah4• 14 years ago

What a bizarre comment to receive downvotes. Here's Marco's explanation:

http://www.marco.org/2011/12/07/standing-up-for-android

(he's also made the same point in his podcast)

statictype• 14 years ago

I love Instapaper. It was one of the first apps I got for the iPhone and its got a permanent place on my iPad dock.

I think Readability could be the best thing that happened for users of Instapaper.

The competition is forcing him to do things he wouldn't have done earlier. Apart from fonts issue he addresses here, he also recently upgraded the bookmarklet to support paging - a pretty big feature he had put off with justification for some time now (http://www.marco.org/2011/07/19/siracusa-multipage)

ZeroGravitas• 14 years ago

I thought the official Apple-community view on competition was that it was a "race to the bottom" and only lead to bad things for consumers.

saturdaysaint• 14 years ago

His own story is interesting, but I think he vastly overstates the explanatory value of "being defensive vs. learning from your competition" IRT international, goliath corporations. It's almost sports fan-level projection/myth-making.

When introducing new versions of OSX, Steve Jobs used to joke about how quickly Microsoft would copy them, so the image of an arrogant MS that paid Apple no notice is off. The new prominence of design in Google products (including Android) exhibits at least a little bit of competitive influence from Apple, so it's strange to refer to them as arrogant and unresponsive competitors.

why-el2• 14 years ago

I don't use Instapaper, but does it offer something like Readability's Send to Kindle? Thats the killer feature for a Kindle user like me.

swilliams• 14 years ago

It does. http://www.instapaper.com/extras Search for "Kindle automatic wireless delivery". Haven't used it myself though.

why-el2• 14 years ago

Oh good to know. The only reason I might consider this is because Readability sometimes does not parse long articles correctly, usually parsing only a portion of them.

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