We Are Typists First, Programmers Second

http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/001188.html

by bdfh42 • 18 years ago

41 58 18 years ago

bdfh42• 18 years ago

What typing?

I use Visual Studio - you just hit a letter and then the <TAB> key and Intellisense writes the code. The programs don't always do what was intended but hey you can't have everything.

Hexstream• 18 years ago

I only type 65 WPM and use long variable names, yet I usually don't bother using autocompletion.

I feel thinking about possible word clashes and the resulting background process of continually estimating the optimal prefix so that I type enough letters to get the correct completion yet not too much to waste effort is slower and more distracting than just typing it out.

As I see it, autocompletion is just an aid for when you don't remember the exact name of something.

axod7• 18 years ago

That's ridiculous. Good programmers work out how to type less using the power of their mind. If you can type exceedingly fast, where is the incentive to produce better more concise maintainable code? Learning to type fast before programming could be a big mistake IMHO.

Also, if you love programming, you practice... and the more you practice, the faster you get.

Typing is just the current method most people use to pass data from ourselves to computers. Programming will continue to exist once we have moved on from using keyboards.

mechanical_fish3• 18 years ago

If you can type exceedingly fast, where is the incentive to produce better more concise maintainable code?

You don't strive for concise code because it takes less time to type. You strive for it because it's easier to read.

The reason you have to be able to type quickly is that, while your final result may be concise, you may have to type parts of your code several times as you revise it down to that final form. Then you have to type the documentation, the emails to the rest of the team, the blog posts describing your work. Then the specs will change, or your ambition will grow, and you will type some more.

Programming will continue to exist once we have moved on from using keyboards.

I don't see why this would happen. Except for those who are unfortunate enough to sustain a typing injury, keyboards are better than the alternatives. Have you ever tried dictating Perl code to someone? As if reading /^foo+([bB]a+r)$/ wasn't hard enough -- trying to pronounce it is like torture. Are you capable of writing 82 WPM longhand? I certainly can't. Maybe if my notepad had autocompletion, but even then I'm dubious. Keyboards have autocompletion, too, and they have it right now.

Maybe someday we'll perfect the mindreading interface which rearranges text based on pure thought, but until then I suspect that keyboards will always be the first choice. Which is not to say that I'd turn down a notepad that could flawlessly read my writing. The problem with typing 82 WPM is that it's hard to do it all day. I'd be willing to switch back and forth to longhand just for the ability to write digital text while I'm taking a break from the keyboard.

axod7• 18 years ago

"I don't see why this would happen."

You can't foresee any time in the future of the universe when we will stop using keyboards to transfer data from ourselves to machines?

Before the advent of the typewriter, I'm sure there was a similar argument for Authors - that they must learn to write quickly and neatly with pens. Good advice in the day, but an Author is still an Author, whether they use a pen or a typewriter.

dhbradshaw2• 18 years ago

"As if reading /^foo+([bB]a+r)$/ wasn't hard enough -- trying to pronounce it is like torture."

That's interesting to think about: how would language optimization be different if we spoke instead of typed?

yummyfajitas2• 18 years ago

The difference is the following.

As a fast typist using emacs, code simply flows from my brain to the compiler. I think it, things compile, I see the results. My conscious brain is 100% focused on my code, it's almost like a direct brain <-> computer connection.

Lately I've suffered from RSI. The pain is no biggie, but it forces me to consciously focus on typing. When this occurs, I lose the (almost) direct direct brain <-> computer connection. The fact that 15% of my brain is focused on typing without pain lowers my productivity significantly.

axod7• 18 years ago

Maybe I'm doing something wrong. The bottleneck for me has never been typing speed (Even when using idiotically verbose java), and I'm probably an average speed typist.

helveticaman• 18 years ago

Totally. An editor like emacs changes everything.

lutorm• 18 years ago

Dude, take the pain seriously -- if you don't, you might find that connection totally severed! And I'm speaking from personal experience. If you think you have it bad now, try dictating your code using voice recognition. You don't want to end up there, trust me, so doing whatever is necessary right now is a good investment in future productivity.

dmoney• 18 years ago

How did you get to that point? Are there programming-specific typing practice tools or exercises?

nradov2• 18 years ago

It's not ridiculous at all. You may spend very little time actually typing in code, but most developers spend a lot of time typing things like API documentation, design proposals, e-mails, IMs, etc. The slow typists tend to write inadequate documentation and not exchange enough written communications with their colleagues.

Keyboards will continue to be the primary means for entering code and English text for quite a few more years. So it's rather silly to put off learning touch typing now while waiting for practical speech recognition or some kind of BMI to show up.

axod7• 18 years ago

"API documentation, design proposals, e-mails, IMs, etc"

None of those are programming. They are communication and admin. Which are completely different.

kingkongrevenge2• 18 years ago

> developers spend a lot of time typing things like API documentation, design proposals, e-mails, IMs, etc.

Here's what I've noticed about fast typists: They produce large volumes of hurried and poorly worded and edited crap. Yegge, my current boss, and one of my co-workers fit this mold. They type very fast, and I frequently have no idea what their writing is about, or am annoyed with the excess verbiage.

The best writing is re-writing. The best coding is refactoring. In both coding and writing the bottleneck is going through what you've written two or three times and making the necessary edits and stopping to think. First pass typing speed is absolutely not the bottleneck to producing anything of quality. If you want to churn out unreadable or unmaintainable crap, belting out functions at 90 wpm and then moving right on is a good way to go.

jeroen• 18 years ago

If I had to, I could use a mouse with my foot on an onscreen keyboard. It would require a bit more patience and time, but it would in no way hinder my ability to create software.

scott_s• 18 years ago

Requiring more patience and time fits the definition of hinder.

hugh• 18 years ago

Y'know, that gives me an idea. Why not a foot-controlled mouse? That way I'd never have to take my hands off the keyboard.

(quick googling)

Oh, they already exist. Has anyone ever used one? They're three hundred bucks, so I'm not gonna buy one just to try it out and see if I like it.

stcredzero• 18 years ago

A SmartNav head mouse can be had for less. I've bought two for my girlfriend who has RSI. Yes, they work quite well, but you'll need practice, and a way to hit a mouse button without using your feet. (Hard to move your feet without using your head.) There are programs that will emulate a mouse button for you.

SamReidHughes• 18 years ago

A coworker of mine uses one and loves it.

jmah• 18 years ago

I've always wanted to learn to type with just my left hand. The Half-Keyboard idea goes quite a way to that end; http://gnufoo.org/ucontrol/ used to implement it on earlier Mac OS X versions, but they were threatened with a patent suit and so removed it.

Can anyone here type with one hand and recommend how to go about it?

Allocator2008• 18 years ago

I don't even know where to begin with this. Typing is a way to program, but not the only way. One can get on ebay or the like and find these old engineering sheets of paper where people at IBM would hand write FORTRAN code, then take the paper over to the department that would make punch cards out of the programming sheets. No typing involved. It is like saying to fly you need to know how to handle jet engines, rather than the principles of lift, keeping the nose level, etc. Whether the plane uses a jet engine or not is incidental to good piloting skills. Similarly, whether one uses a keyboard to create a program or the IBM engineering sheets to handwrite out a program is incidental to good programming skills. Typing hasn't a thing to do with programming.

davidw• 18 years ago

Hrm. I think great and just decent programmers are probably well within an order of magnitude of one another when typing, but not in terms of productivity. Yeah, if you don't know how to type, learn, but come on, is the sort of thing one has to resort to to get traffic?:-/

dhbradshaw2• 18 years ago

My uncle crushed his spinal chord and lost the use of his legs and fingers. As a c6, he can move his arms in broad strokes, allowing him to type.

He has become a hacker in the best sense and done important work for many years now. His mind matters more than his fingers.

maurycy• 18 years ago

Few months ago we were writers, now we're typists. What's next?

inerte• 18 years ago

From Jeff and Steve:

The One Thing Every Software Engineer Should Know http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/001177.html

Every week some thing is more important than the old thing from previous week. Next, we'll hear about stuff like "food", and "friends" and "love".

This necessity to shock is a gimmick. It does work for sensationalized news for example, where from time to time a certain crime gets more coverage and importance than others, even if the same type of crime is happening simultaneously.

Typing is cool, ok, and so is marketing. But the germinating view is simplistic: All things being equal, an awesome engineer who types faster is better than an awesome engineer. But things are never equal.

"Learn Typing" plays with a primal human necessity, apealing to the easier denominator. It makes people feel good to tell them that they can be better professionals in two weeks.

"Learn Marketing" plays with our frustations. So many people have lived this situation: The product was perfect, but maybe if I had just told about it differently, if I had just made my boss understand, if I just knew a way to convince others how much awesome I am, etc.

And let's not forget about yesterday's article about Honda, thriving in dificult times, but run by engineers. The truth is that we (human beings, not specifically the HN crowd) like to hear about what we like. I see so many indications of the little club that exists in here (reddit is even worse nowadays), but that's not the point, because this is normal. The point is that all this shit doesn't matter, but we like to pretend that it does because we get to be happy for five minutes.

Managers have this disease too, with their self-help books and curiosity to know who moved their cheese. These things are like happiness injections, making us feel good until the next shine stuff appear.

BTW, I do believe typing and marketing is important, but in no way they're even near the top qualities I am looking for in a programmer.

vlad• 18 years ago

Great post.

rapind4• 18 years ago

I don't agree with Jeff or Steve. Mainly because a lot of programming is about thinking, reading, googling, and copy / paste.

However, a couple weeks ago I did read Steve's original post on this and decided that since I wasn't a great typist I couldn't really argue that it is or isn't a hindrance for coding. So I began learning to touch type. Since Steve's post I've put in approximately 1 hour (sometimes more) a day using a course I paid for. My words per minute is up to about 50 (I used to be around 35 with my own invented way of typing), however I've still seen no speed increase while programming because of all the symbols and numbers, so I'm still at it.

I still don't think it'll have much of an impact on my quality of code or rate of production. Most of my time is still spent thinking, reading, googling ;)

IMHO, anyone saying that typing is the most important skill for a programmer is being silly. It likely is one more useful tool in your toolbox though. We'll see.

rapind4• 18 years ago

I forgot to add a small point of criticism. In order to prove his point near the end Jeff is comparing extremes instead of realities. Touch typing v.s. not using a keyboard at all... I think the reality comparison is 80 wpm v.s. 35 wpm.

Also, I could be wrong on this, but I doubt the 84 wpm he rated on a word test is the same rate he'd get writing code. The -=+/?\|&*()$#@! really slows me down drastically. My apologies if I'm wrong.

chris11• 18 years ago

This sounds like a good problem to solve, create a typing program for programmers.

potatolicious2• 18 years ago

Not to gloat or show off or anything - but I can type at approx. 120wpm with good accuracy. It helps immensely with all aspects of my life - not just code. I can put ideas to paper (or screen, as it were) very, very quickly. This drives a lot of iterations and allows me to hone and fine-tune my work even further.

I'm also able to write up large amounts of text - blog posts, forum posts, etc etc, and all have over the years helped me become a better communicator. I enjoy discussing things with people and writing about my work, and I can't imagine doing the volume that I do as a slower typist at, say, 30wpm.

Like others here have mentioned, being a fast and accurate typist is like having a direct mind connection to the computer - your words come out almost as quickly as you can think of them.

rapind4• 18 years ago

I hear you. My goal is to get up to 80+ wpm and I'll be throwing cycles at this goal everyday until then, so maybe then I'll be a convert.

I guess I just think the importance to programming is a little exaggerated is all. No doubt it is a great benefit all around, but I'll reserve final judgment about it's impact on my coding until I can experience the difference myself, and then report back to this thread.

jcl2• 18 years ago

On a barely related note, this article reminded me of how much I enjoyed Typing of the Dead. Unfortunately, the only legitimate place I've been able to find it is on GameTap, which requires a subscription fee. Does anyone know of similar games? It seems there is a market opportunity for genuinely entertaining typing games for a post-elementary-school audience.

icey• 18 years ago

Dear painters: If you want to succeed, please use the largest brush available.

Frabjous-Dey• 18 years ago

I like Steve Yegge and Jeff Atwood a lot, and I respect them as experienced programmers who probably know a lot more than I do. But, frankly, articles like this discredit their expertise in my eyes.

You would either have to be an extremely poor typist or an extremely prolific programmer for your productivity to be constrained by your typing.

tdavis• 18 years ago

It's important to note that being a competent typist and being a competent programming typist are different things. On the test that Jeff linked to in his post, I scored 101 WPM. Throw in enough symbols and numbers and other non-standard stuff and I am forced to look at the keyboard occasionally which lowers that number significantly.

As someone coming back to Vim after years away, this is complicated by the need to memorize and be able to instantly recall a font of often complicated commands. I am so inefficient currently that if a task simply requires some copy/paste operations or I need to work with a very long file I will usually just fire it up in TextMate and use the dreaded mouse to speed things along.

I don't believe conventional typing courses are sufficient for gaining the sort of seamless connection talked about here because the focus is on proficiency in typing common characters / words. I much prefer the "Words & Numbers" test on that site (http://typeonline.co.uk/typingspeed_alpha_numeric.php) because it forces the practice of shifting between common characters and less common ones. There's another test I can't recall the link to that basically just makes you type never-ending series of single numbers and symbols along the top row.

Learning conventional typing is pretty easy. Becoming a highly skilled programming typist is a task that requires much more practice.

gills• 18 years ago

Or...don't write bloated code. Same result. There's a point in life where you just need to understand your weaknesses but not obsess over them, and focus on your strengths instead.

msie• 18 years ago

The article should be called "We Are Bloggers First, Programmers Second."

mxh• 18 years ago

As a hacker friend put it: "Programmers are paid to think, and occasionally type". Not the other way 'round.

light3• 18 years ago

Wow I never knew the proper definition for WPM - when I was young I started learning to type in VI and I practiced speed which as I recall was around 60 words / min, but trying out my typing speed on that webpage I find my speed under proper WPM definition I'm doing 110 WPM awesome :))

Typing fast and efficiently has many benefits - you save energy, you do things faster. Although in the case of programming typing speed is only one factor which determine how well you program. One could argue that learning more powerful languages or the ability to problem solve are equally if not more important.

aneesh• 18 years ago

Typing is almost never the rate-limiting step when programming.

tsally• 18 years ago

As a rebuttal, I present this scientific graph: http://i37.tinypic.com/33e086s.png

We Are Typists First, Programmers Second

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