Neural stimulation as a treatment for addiction

https://spectrum.ieee.org/tms-for-addiction

by pseudolus • 3 years ago

75 35 3 years ago

spectrum.ieee.org

pinkcan• 3 years ago

"Exploring Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation as a Potential Treatment for Addiction: Promising Results but More Research Needed"

LoganDark• 3 years ago

https://xkcd.com/2268/

jokowueu• 3 years ago

It seems fMRI guided TMS is the go to option , currently they are relying on approximations but it costs 10k$ for all of those sessions .Ibogaine analogues such as tabernanthalog will be the go to option because of ease of use,cost and time required .

sdfhbdf• 3 years ago

During the magnetic-stimulation treatment, Peter was shown pictures of drugs and encouraged to reflect on the harmful consequences of his addiction. The hope is that his brain’s reward circuits—a complex network of interwoven brain regions that control pleasure-seeking behaviors—will get reconfigured in ways that ultimately alleviate cravings and strengthen self-control.

Sounds like a scene right out of “A Clockwork Orange” [0]

[0] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066921/

lacrimacida• 3 years ago

Same thoughs here. Let’s hope they don’t play Beethoven during the stimulation.

phren0logy2• 3 years ago

This really falls apart when you consider that not just cooperation but active effort on the part of the participant is required to make this work, otherwise it would be totally ineffective.

civilitty• 3 years ago

Wait until they see my new and improved Ludovico Technique, brought to you by the local ketamine clinic!

b33j0r2• 3 years ago

Yeah, I think I’d rather handle any addiction myself than go through that.

Especially when there are viable addiction treatments, but the overall treatment experience still always blame the person at a root level, so they aren’t as successful as they could be.

Me. I started smoking cigs at 23, and not one doctor ever asked me why I started later than pretty much anyone else (got divorced, and my dude friends were smoking, thought I could outsmart nicotine.)

Had to process it with nothing but terrible advice from people who never got addicted to anything. Then those who quit because they were pregnant/new dad with angry wife.

c7DJTLrn• 3 years ago

Yeah, I think I’d rather handle any addiction myself than go through that

Then you probably don't really know addiction. Recovered hard drug addicts can get cravings for substances for the rest of their lives. The brain doesn't let go because it knows it can get that feeling again at any time. Not relapsing is a continuous battle, although it gets easier with time.

I get that the research sounds a bit disturbing, but if it works, it would be a groundbreaking therapy for addiction and a lot of people would be able to live their lives again.

scns3• 3 years ago

If substances that trigger a dependency with a dangerous withdrawal like Methadone or Alcohol in hard cases are excluded, then addiction and even just drug use is just trying to numb pain to me. It can be physical or emotional in nature.

If the treated choose another activity, like excissive sports or work distract themselves again, how much is won?

If this shortcut works, great.

FollowingTheDao7• 3 years ago

When we obtain pleasure from anything, we increase what it’s called “receptor density“. When you have higher receptor density and you stop doing the activity, those neurons don’t fire.

And this is why in Taoism as well as Buddhism, the goal is to lose attachment to all things.

nelox• 3 years ago

So my goal should be to not have a goal. Wait.

jnathsf• 3 years ago

And this is why in Taoism as well as Buddhism, the goal is to lose attachment to all things.

That's not my understanding of attachment in Eastern religions. It's focused on not being attached to the outcomes of your actions.

Aurornis• 3 years ago

then addiction and even just drug use is just trying to numb pain to me

Drugs are rewarding and that’s why people use them. There are many medications that will dull the senses, numb feelings, and reduce emotions. Drug users don’t seek these out and become dependent on them, though, which is why they’re unscheduled.

Ignoring the rewarding/euphoric effects of these drugs is a red herring.

If the treated choose another activity, like excissive sports or work distract themselves again, how much is won?

Are you asking if doing a lot of sports or work is better than a lifetime of drug addiction? Because that’s not really a question. Drug dependence can be sustained for a while (“functional addicts”) but the cumulative long-term effects across many domains are undeniably worse than playing a lot of sports or doing a lot of work.

scns3• 3 years ago

Check this out. They showed, in the 70s(!), that rats stop consuming opioids when the source of emotional pain is gone.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_park

FollowingTheDao7• 3 years ago

But I thought EMFs can’t do anything to people?

ooterness2• 3 years ago

TMS involves strapping a very strong electromagnet directly to your head. Field strengths routinely hit 2-3 Tesla, about a million times stronger than the stray EMF from high-voltage transmission lines.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcranial_magnetic_stimulat... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orders_of_magnitude_(magnetic_...

FollowingTheDao7• 3 years ago

I am familiar with TMS. I have a friend who became suicidal after undergoing TMS.

And regarding orders of magnitude, if a lot does something, what is the lowest order if magnitude that does anything? And to who? Does genetics matter? Does genetics matter in TMS? And are short pulses of high Gauss the same as long term exposure to a lower Gauss? Are we comparing apples to apples?

So many questions and so much certainty...

d-us-vb• 3 years ago

The view that addiction is a disease is still contentious. Addiction may really be the brain functioning normally, but with abnormal stimuli. Brains are learning organs. Addictive substances don’t rewire it any differently from “normal” stimuli, it just does it faster and it’s harder to undo.

But due to brain plasticity, the most effective treatment for addiction yet discovered is forgetting it, or more precisely, abstinence for a long enough period. (But that usually sounds trite because the problem being solved during treatment is more preventing voluntary relapse, starting the forgetting period over again.)

The fact that the effects don’t last for more than a few months is very concerning, and I have to wonder about the long term side effects of so bluntly changing something as complex as a brain. And even more concerning is the risk of predatory behavior of practitioners preying on the desperation of addicts.

Maybe this is already in everyone’s mind as they read this, but as someone dealing with an addiction, I would not volunteer for this treatment due to these risks. Imagine if the long term effects actually make the addiction worse. And that seems very possible based on how much we actually know about how the brain works.

zzzzzzzza• 3 years ago

abstinence for a long enough period having an effective mechanism of forgetting is actually a pretty interesting concept, do you have any paper recommendations on that line?

mirko222• 3 years ago

Sadly I think addiction is a psychological process induced by ones state of life.

Most addition therapies work well while a person is engaged in it but as soon as the person comes back to their old life style it comes back.

You need to change your life to change the habits otherwise is near impossible unless you have very strong willpower, which most people with addiction don’t.

funnym0nk3y2• 3 years ago

And some things take time to forget or are even impossible to forget. Even after years and years of not riding a bike you don't forget how to if you learned it in your childhood. Same with driving a manual car and later switching to automatic transmission.

I'm very hopeful that psychedelics help with (un) learning.

ChrisMarshallNY• 3 years ago

I suspect that Betteridge's law of headlines applies, here...

EDIT: They removed the silly question from the HN posting, but it's still the title of the page ("CAN NEURAL STIMULATION ZAP ADDICTION?")

mistrial9• 3 years ago

Consider the counter-example, seen on a street near you -- addiction as a response to excessive neural stimulation

mirko222• 3 years ago

In my opinion and experience, which might not mean much, people react well to addiction therapy while undergoing it. Usually cos they are engaged in non usual processes in their life.

As soon as they return they their usual life old habits kick in.

Only way to have similar lifestyle and drop addiction from it is to dig deep and understand why you have those habits to start with.

You have to replace the triggers for usual behaviour and this is extremely hard for learned behaviours.

To the extent that those who do it, let’s say by doing sport, actually become addicted to sport if they manage to change their original behaviour.

Neural stimulation as a treatment for addiction

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